How do you know it is time to progress to the next stone?
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How do you know it is time to progress to the next stone?
This may need to be moved to a different category.
Moved to Honing forum.
I use visual aids, ie a loupe at all stages. The physical tests like the TNT are useful at bevel set.
Thank you for moving it. What is TNT and loupe?
TNT is thumbnail test:
Sharpness tests explained - Straight Razor Place Library
A loupe is a magnifier.
This is the hardest thing to convey to someone new because it's very difficult to tell someone what to look for. And even if language didn't fall short in this area, it would most likely not be universally accepted by all of us anyway. There are some general things that people will tell you but it will eventually come down to experience.
That leads me to my next question if I am doing it right when I am done on a 1000 grit stone should it cut. My razor does not even cut.
I started with a eBay buy the blade was in pretty good shape. I cleaned the blade and when doing so I put some very small chips in it I mean very small like cant see but can feel. I started on a 120 grit removed the chips then moved to a 220 for just a few. I then progressed to the 1000 which I thought would give me a blade that would at least cut a paper towel. It won't. I know citing paper with a blade is about the worst thing you can do with it but I knew I was not done so don't see the harm.
Just thinking. If you go to you tube and look up Lynn Abrams and honing. That's what a lot of folks did. Lynn and others show honing step by step and explains different ways of testing your edge. He goes through the progression of different grits. I have always been able to hone knives and axes chain saws but razors was a different animal altogether. I watched his and Ssixguns videos and learned quite a lot. that's been about 2 1/2 years ago and I get a fairly good edge and can shave with these razors I hone with out big old croc. tears . Check them out. I do believe it will help. Some times seeing is better that reading. Just my opinion.
To answer your question thoroughly we really need to discuss what the purpose of a grit progression is and what is happening to steel at the edge of the razor when you hone.
Basically you are wearing away steel with the abrasive particulates in a hone when you sharpen a razor. These abrasive particulates leave gouges in the steel, and not all of them are uniform in depth or width etc, particularly at lower grits. People often refer to striations in the metal, or a scratch pattern.
The generally accepted purpose of a honing progression is to get the two sides of the bevel as close as they can get to each other, and get those two bevels as smooth as they can get as well. In other words, try to smooth out those gouges made by the lower grit stones. As a side-effect of that smoothing process you are also generally speaking bringing the two sides of the bevel closer to each other as well, so that's a good thing.
So then, to answer your question. You should progress to the next stone when the current stone has reached its optimal cutting and smoothing potential. So unfortunately you don't know when to progress to the next stone. None of us do. We guess, basically. An informed guess, for sure, but a guess it is.
People with more experience are better guessers than those with less experience and therefore produce more consistent results. This is why beginner honers can get a great edge on one razor, but then cannot repeat it again - they fluked a good guess.
To aid in the guesswork we can use subjective empirical tests. Onimaru pointed to the Wiki link for a description of those, and it is well worth reading them. But just remember they are subjective - you need to work out how they work for you, which means lots of experimentation with lots of razors over lots of time.
The best guessers out there are called Honemeisters. It's barely a guess with them to be honest, but nevertheless, when talking about an optimal process, grit progression always has an element of guesswork in it. It's why some people talk about intuition, and why it is so hard to explain in words how to hone.
James.
I think James gave one of the best explanations that Ive heard so far. Coupled with the subjective tests (after they are calibrated for you) it is a thorough explanation. It really comes down to experience and trial.
I would say it is safe to assume if after the 1k you weren't able to cut a piece of paper the bevel is not set. I wouldn't drop back down and I would keep the pressure medium-light and spend as much time as it takes to get it "knife sharp" or bevel set at the 1k.
Only Lynn is called Honemeister. Everyone else is called a honer.
Other than that, Jimbo, your write-up was awesome!
And to the OP, setting the bevels is the the main key to the whole thing. If you cannot shave off of your 1k honing, then you are wasting your time with the rest of whatever your progression may be.
And starting on a 120 grit stone is a bit like doing a Ripley. Nuking the entire site from orbit to be sure :)
As I see it, the only way to have another 'Honemeister' would be for LA to anoint one. Being the only one who could accurately access this level of achievement, he could gently lay the open blade on each shoulder of the kneeling honer.
Perhaps, more reasonable, would be to have several titles for those that are below The Honemeister. Here is a sample list with a brief description (in descending order):
apedreado mano de afeitar -- Simply put, this is as high as anyone can go.
le bord effrayant -- This person can do anything that the apredreado mano de afeitar can do but no one has seen him do it.
der Chirurg der Rasur --cool, the medical/science officer of the Good Ship Shave
Le Petit Honito -- the water boy of honers
I like it!
The third one I don't understand, but I still like it.
I suppose I could be a Le Petit Honito, but I'm really not that small.
#3 -- German variant means: the surgeon shaving I forget what I was originally trying to translate, but this gets close.
I take liberties in low voter turnout threads.
I might be slightly down from Le Petit Honito
honer afeitar felizmente estúpido
An old SRP mentor taught me that when the slurry doesn’t darken anymore (especially on the lower grits synthetics tape or no tape), move to the next finer stone. If you prefer to use water only then you are abandoning this and other useful visual observations that can be obtained from using slurry.
Another interesting thread topic might be, “How to distinguish the edge between different final finishing stones.” Hint, no slurry is involved. I hope this may help some. Good luck sir.
MIke
How do you know it is time to progress to the next stone?
By looking at the bevel and edge.
A properly set bevel should, make the bevels flat, align the proper bevel angle, from heel to toe, edge to bevel top and they should meet in a chip free, straight edge.
Here is where 90 percent of new honer problems can be found. One or more of the above 3 is not complete. Moving up rarely resolves the issue, just compounds it.
So, once you think the bevel is set, ink the bevel and do 10 more laps on the 1k, all the ink should be removed all the way to the edge, and when you look straight down on the edge, you should not see any reflections. If you do, you need more work on the 1k.
Then it is just a matter of removing all the previous stone’s stria without dinging the edge. The goal is to reduce the stria/land height with each subsequent grit stone and make a straighter edge. Good, lighted magnification and sharpie ink will make seeing the stria easier.