Difficult blade.

Just wondering if others have this problem. out the razors i have honed i have found 2 that i never got right. one was a stainless steel blade the other is an old sheffield. The sheffield i have taken to the hone 5 times and still haven't got what i consider a comfortable shave. I'm just before removing the blade from the scales and chunking the blade. It's not what i would call a good looking blade as it is but for me now it's about actually getting it to shave right. after that i may use it to cut patches for my smoke pole. I got the thing off the bay mainly for the scales. they were ivory and the razor was very inexpensive. I removed the blade and cleaned the scales then made scales for the blade out of plastic.
I used the naniwa hones 1K-3K-5K-8K- and 12K then finished on the Suehiro 20K. All good stones and have served me well. I use tape on the spine to create the small edge that i like. I don't have a microscope but do have 10X loop. from what i see through it the bevel is set and edge looks ok. It shaves but pulls some. The feel is not at all like any of the other blades i have. Anyway just thought i would ask and see if others have had this experience and what they may have done to fix the problem.

First off pictures would help. Next what is the grind of the blade wedge, near wedge, hollow? Don't throw out the blade until you get an answer.

5/8 near wedge. It seems like each time i hone it it gets a little better but not quite right. I've had to hone different razors twice before because the bevel was not quite right but never this many times. I will try to take some photos and post but i can't get real close photos of the edge . I have been using Lynns circle method as he shows on you tube.

On a wedge or near wedge it helps to use 2 or 3 layers of electrical tape on the spine. This keeps the sides of the blade off the hone.

Must have been a real good edge if you started restoring at 1k. :)

The blade had some rust and when i started sanding i noticed that it was too deep to get completely out. i sanded untill there was some small devils spit at the tip and buffed. then i used 2 layers of .0085 scotch brand tape. I have a 400 grit hone but the edge didn't look bad enough to use it. the more i think about it i may not have the bevel set good enough. I can hold a long hair out of the wife's hair brush (i don't have any) hanging down and the blade cuts it but it still may not be right. I will try it again tomorrow and see what happens. It would have been nice if the blade was good but at least i got a good set of scales out of it.

It is hard for me to explain why I think it help, so lets just jump to what I do and forget the why. On a restored razor. I will typically set the bevel and then kill it on the corner of the 1K hone and set it again. As I watch the edge come together if it starts to develop unevenly, as in one section is good but the other is not there yet, or has missing pieces, I will kill it hard one more time, and then hone to finish. If it comes together fairly nicely after the first hard kill, I will gently take it off on my thumbnail and then bring it back with just a handful of strokes on the 1K and then move up. In my mind it is all logical but hard for me to explain. You may be getting to the same place by having re-honed it.

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Originally Posted by rhensley

The blade had some rust and when i started sanding i noticed that it was too deep to get completely out. i sanded untill there was some small devils spit at the tip and buffed. then i used 2 layers of .0085 scotch brand tape. I have a 400 grit hone but the edge didn't look bad enough to use it. the more i think about it i may not have the bevel set good enough. I can hold a long hair out of the wife's hair brush (i don't have any) hanging down and the blade cuts it but it still may not be right. I will try it again tomorrow and see what happens. It would have been nice if the blade was good but at least i got a good set of scales out of it.

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When it comes to HHT I always say it's how it cuts not if it cuts.
The bevel may be ok but when it comes to old wedges & rust the steel does not always behave itself, so to speak.
Rust is like the wind. When it's gone damage often remains behind.

I will try 1 maybe 2 more times. i do know that i will order a 800 grit hone from SRD. I have been debating on whether or not i need one i think this may have made up my mind. as i said earlier the edge wasn't bad enough to go to the 400. no nicks or chips just really dull from sanding. It may seem like a lot of work for a blade that's really not that good but I'm kind of hard headed. I may end up throwing in the dump but i will get at east one comfortable shave out of it. The more i read and the more i think (sometimes that may be dangerous) the bevel can't be completely right. I'll let ya'll know how it goes after i try it again. I need to order some more shaving soap from SRD i just have to find enough to order to get the free shipping. I don't know if I'm frugal or just cheap?

Oh and it cuts the hanging hair but not like any of the rest of my blades. It's slower to cut. kind of pushes the hair before it cuts. The hair is blonde and very thin and or light.

I will try to explain my theory on what is happening, and it kind of fits with what Oz said too. The fat edge has been beat up and rusty for a while. All of the fatigue goes past the edge. Kind of like when you file the serial number off of you handgun but the lab guys can use acid on the steel to remove the damaged steel and the serial number jumps right back out again. The edge is sort of like that. You can make it smooth but the underlying damage is still there. By killing the edge hard, it takes off a bunch of the damage steel. The edge then gets honed back up again. If it does not come back nice and even that is because of the damaged, weaker metal pushed back farther than the health steel and it need to have it happen again to get the steel even and healthy. That is sort of how it all wiggles around in my brain. Of course it is an unproven hypothesis but helps me to make sense of it.

Yup, bad steel, breadknife or do as Shaun advised, hone it, kill the edge, hone it again, kill it and hone it one more time. Either way you are getting to good steel. Old Sheffield steel is good steel, but rust is rust…

10X may not be enough to see damage to the edge. 60X lighted loupe for $2 is a good investment.

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Yup, bad steel, breadknife or do as Shaun advised, hone it, kill the edge, hone it again, kill it and hone it one more time. Either way you are getting to good steel. Old Sheffield steel is good steel, but rust is rust…

10X may not be enough to see damage to the edge. 60X lighted loupe for $2 is a good investment.

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If I'm starting from bevel set, I always kill the edge and do it again just to make sure now. It leaves no doubt as to if the apex has been properly formed. If it's a chippy razor I kill it again on a hard white Arkansas and bring it back with that stone too

I have never been a big fan of breadknifing, but sometimes I will "sharpen" a razor like you would your pocket knife with the spine raised.

Nothing wrong with killing a edge either, sometimes you have to get to fresh material at the edge.

No matter what, if you like the razor, send it to me if it doesn't work out for you. Sometimes another set of hands can bring one around...as long as the temper isn't blown. I have run into that two times since I have been at this sport, first time almost made me pull my hair out until I talked to my honing mentor. Just cover the return shipping.

Just made an order to SRD and in it is a 800 grit super stone. I will put the razor aside until it gets here. As for the offers to hone for me i really appreciate the offer but to tell you the truth i really don't think the blade is worth shipping both ways. For me it's just being hard headed. I will make this thing shave. When the 800 grit gets here i thing i will add an extra layer of tape and then start with the 400 then go to the 800 then the 1K and finish honing as before. If this doesn't do it i will start looking for another peace of rusty steel to play with. Again thanks to those who offered to hone. if the blade was better i would send it to you.

Way to hang in there man.

Go watch drmatt's video on the 5 essential things you must know for bevel setting. I had 3 razors that I never could get where I wanted them. A couple of hours after this video, they were perfect.

That is some seriously aggressive bevel setting with a lot of metal removed. After that aggressive of hone work I should hope the bevel would be set and any weak metal removed.

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Originally Posted by RezDog

It is hard for me to explain why I think it help, so lets just jump to what I do and forget the why. On a restored razor. I will typically set the bevel and then kill it on the corner of the 1K hone and set it again. As I watch the edge come together if it starts to develop unevenly, as in one section is good but the other is not there yet, or has missing pieces, I will kill it hard one more time, and then hone to finish. If it comes together fairly nicely after the first hard kill, I will gently take it off on my thumbnail and then bring it back with just a handful of strokes on the 1K and then move up. In my mind it is all logical but hard for me to explain. You may be getting to the same place by having re-honed it.

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I like your method..... I'll have to give that one a shot.
I have 9 razors I am going to hone here in the next little while, time permitting.
Thank you, I learned something new today.

:chapeau

I would bet that you are not getting the bevel set correctly before moving up. Start over by killing the edge

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Must have been a real good edge if you started restoring at 1k. :)

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If not a 1k stone what other stone would you recommend for a more aggressive bevel setter ?

Thought i would share this with ya'll and give you a good laugh. I got to thinking that Ha i haven't tried the paste on leather on this blade. Well i haven't used paste i almost two years so i found the strop with the green on it and gave it about 4 maybe 5 laps the 50 on just leather. Well After my hot shower i stood in front of the mirror and lathered up real good and raised the blade and first pass. Thought i was going to cry. Did i tell ya'll i'm a little hard headed. Well instead of going to the safe and getting another blade that i know will shave comfortable i decided to finish with the tear jerk er. And it was. I will now wait on my package from straight razor designs before i re- hone this evil thing.

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Originally Posted by wvuhillbilly

If not a 1k stone what other stone would you recommend for a more aggressive bevel setter ?

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I don't know about anyone else but i have a 400 grit but it is really aggressive. I have a 800 on it's way. I am trying to stay with the naniwa hones and not get as many hones as razors.

Yeah, the chosera 400 is very course, and can cause chipping, depending on the steel.

Make sure to figure out if it is warped (tapping the toe and heel alternately while on the flat stone).

Well i got my care package from SRD today and the 800 grit hone worked out really nice. I made cross marks on both sides and used the 325 diamond to remove the marks leaving the hone nice and flat. I used the 800 then the 1K-3K-5K-8K- the the 12K naniwa and finished as always on the 20K. I shaved the right side of my face tonight with it and the left with the Joseph Rodgers 6/8 I got the other day. It shaves OK. Still not as good as a lot of other razors i have but acceptable. I don't know if it was from the honing or the castle forbes lavender shaving cream i got today. That stuffs pretty good for shaving and the wife says she kind of likes it on me. Nuff said.