any help will be appreciated

Hi earlier i mentionner a razor in here http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...microtome.html

Tonight I tried to shave but it,was awful. So I retried to hone it on 400 grit but before I marked the edge and the bevel with a pen kind stuff to see if the bevel touch really to hone. Well no, it was working, on the edge but,not bevel. So I added some more layer of tape, and still no. At the end,I think I added 20 or more layers of tape and I see it was too close to bevel ( because marks on the area getting disappeared) then I go on with it about a hour but I still did not had a bevel which cut. So I go back on a dmt 1200, one hour like that, on the heel I had some more modification but the middle,and the point of tha blade are work less. They don't cut anything. I,continued after these hours, some,more to see if it will be better but no.

I,left it a side for,now. I will take,it,back after Christmas but I need help. I,don't under stand why its bevel won't get better?

Have you got any pictures, they will help people to get a better understanding.

Perhaps it's time and effort, have you watched videos about setting bevels?

Yes,I watched some. But with 20/+ layers tape is kind,too,much I think. I already honed many razors but this is thug one. For the picture, you can see them im the first link

Sorry, but three layers of tape really is the most that is practical.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oustoura

Well no, it was working, on the edge but,not bevel.

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I'm not sure of what you mean by this. Most critically, when you mark the edge, is the marker being remove at the very edge? That is all that matters for bevel setting. The hone has to reach the very edge of the bevel.

I mean it works on hone wear but not on the bevel

SO you are saying that it is wearing the spine but not touching the bevel near the edge at all? You've got to get some pictures for us to look at. As Utopian said 3 layers of tape if it needs it... 20 layers is unreal, unheard of and impractical. I can't see you getting anywhere with 20 layers of tape on it.. I'd suggest not sitting there grinding it for an hour on a DMT 1200.. Unless you really don't like that particular razor. I'm glad you decided to put it down and collect your thoughts..

Some close ups of the blade may help. I am far too lazy to search another thread for the pics of the razor. Why don't you post them here for our scrutiny.

I looked at some of the pictures and remember the thread. That is going to be a really tough blade to hone. It is not a novice blade at all. It is going to require some serious work to build a bevel on that one. You have to remember that you are doing more than a regular honing. This is part of restoration work http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...l-setting.html This is a very good thread on the subject. I bet you blade has a smile as well which ads to the complication of the job.

With all that honing experience you should know better than that, maybe send it to someone who knows better, but you should post pics if you want some help, 20 layers of tape is crazy, But let's see it. Tc

Take a magnifying glass and look at the edge, the edge will be visible on the teeth, it is from rough stone. It is better when there are pictures.

Looks like near wedge to me from previous thread. Post some photos of the whole blade, not just the profile, would help. An hour on a DMT 1200?

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Originally Posted by RezDog

I looked at some of the pictures and remember the thread. That is going to be a really tough blade to hone. It is not a novice blade at all. It is going to require some serious work to build a bevel on that one. You have to remember that you are doing more than a regular honing. This is part of restoration work http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...l-setting.html This is a very good thread on the subject. I bet you blade has a smile as well which ads to the complication of the job.

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i did exactly the same on it, it had a big crack on the bevel so i did not have any other choice than this procedure. the blade has no smile, it is fine and plane with no cracks or micro crack in the bevel.

to answer about other coms, with 3 or 8 layers, it's only the hone wear touch on the stone and not the bevel. i ask myself if the blade lost too much larger of its and to put it on action, will i need to grind it? because in this way, as i said before the hone wear does not touch the bevel on the hone.


for pictures, i will try to do them this afternoon, otherwise i could only tomorrow night.

If I am reading this right, the hone is only touching/working on the shoulder of the bevel and not reaching to the edge even with excessive layers of tape on the spine. I almost think that the blade may be way out in geometry. Sounds like the spine is way too narrow for the width of the blade as it now is.

What is the spine width in mm and width of the blade measured from where the spine contacts the hone to the edge in mm?

Bob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BobH

If I am reading this right, the hone is only touching/working on the shoulder of the bevel and not reaching to the edge even with excessive layers of tape on the spine. I almost think that the blade may be way out in geometry. Sounds like the spine is way too narrow for the width of the blade as it now is.

What is the spine width in mm and width of the blade measured from where the spine contacts the hone to the edge in mm?

Bob

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you just resumed well my problem. the spine is 4 mm and the blade is 20 mm large.

here some pics,

just marked the edge with black pen

Attachment 222344Attachment 222345

and here, after few passes on 400 grit. as you see there is fine draw, the black mark is gone. but below this line, there is the bevel which does not touch to hone.
Attachment 222346

i think when i corrected the crack (about 1.5 mm) the blade lost a lot of his large. i think i just need to regrind it (well i don't have grinder) or continue on DMT because the edge is still not enough fine to have a bevel.

that's the only explanation i can get.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oustoura

you just resumed well my problem. the spine is 4 mm and the blade is 20 mm large.

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Yes, I do think from those measurements that the spine is far too narrow for the blade width as it is now. I think for a 20mm blade the spine should be 5mm to 5.5mm wide to get a good bevel angle. A 4mm wide spine should be for a 14mm wide blade to get a good bevel angle.

I am not an expert and do not know a solution to the problem. I am sure more knowledgeable members of the forum may be able to help.

Bob

I think you are getting that bevel because you were grinding on it with 20 layers of tape. Now you're trying with a few layers and it's going to take a whole lot of work to get that thing set. Did you try to "bread knife" this blade befor honing?

as i said earlier yes i tried butter knife when i deleted the crack

well i found a solution, as i said this was a 7/8 wedge with a big crack (almost 2 mm) in the bevel which i corrected. but here is the problem, at least, as the blade lost of largeness there is a inequality to remake the bevel, it must to be regrinded to have a correct bevel.

well i don't have one of these machines. the only way i can, is the lift the spine with some degree for the bevel work on the hone. i just discovered this. the bevel is much better, unless i have a big hone wear which i will need to clean and rehone the blade.


here, there is a picture i made for explain better what i'm talking about;

Attachment 222373

the red line for show how i shorted the blade for correct the bevel and clean the crack. the blue lines shows the new bevel which can be done without regrind the blade.

if you have ony other idea for this case, share it please.

merry christmas to all

This thread http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...l-setting.html might be of some help.

Merry Christmas to you too.

Bob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BobH

This thread http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...l-setting.html might be of some help.

Merry Christmas to you too.

Bob

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that's what i exactly did at start when i corrected the crack. but my blade is not a hollow one, so even if i decrease the angle after butter knife level, the bevel does not touch at all to hone if i put it flat. that's why i could not hone.

i don't know maybe i'm wrong at somewhere but for now the only way i can get a result is to lift up the spine and go on like that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oustoura

that's what i exactly did at start when i corrected the crack. but my blade is not a hollow one, so even if i decrease the angle after butter knife level, the bevel does not touch at all to hone if i put it flat. that's why i could not hone.

i don't know maybe i'm wrong at somewhere but for now the only way i can get a result is to lift up the spine and go on like that.

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If I recall correctly, the essence of the thread was that when you butterknife a blade it makes things easier if you do so with the spine lifted off the hone similar to honing a knife. That way you do not have as much work to make the bevels meet to form an edge as you would if you simply had the blade vertical to the hone to breadknife it. You would not have a fairly wide flat edge that you now have.

Then when you do put the spine on the hone you don't have remove as much metal from the shoulders of the bevel but you still will have to remove metal to establish the new bevel that meets at the edge. You will wind up with a wider bevel, usually, if you have reduced the blade size while removing the chip.

It takes quite a while on a 1K hone to reset a bevel after breadknifing a blade. Longer on a wedge razor as you have to remove even more metal than on a hollow ground blade. I have a few razors with wider bevels than normal after chip removal but they still shave.

Like I say I am not expert. What you do next is up to you. Sorry I can't be more helpful. If there is a member of the forum near you it would be helpful to get their hands on advice.

Bob

I see, well what I did at first was the correct the crack at 90 degrees on the dmt so I had the butter knife. After that, I started to reduce the angle of the blade ( still on dmt), at the moment I did 15 passes less than 45 degrees, I put the blade flat on the hone 400 grit ( here the bevel can cut still nothing) and I started to hone with blade flat on the hone. I don't know but may be I did 200 or 300 passes and I got nothing at all ( I've 4 layers of tape on the spine). When I say nothing, I mean nothing, the bevel did not get better at all. Well I returned back on dmt then you know the story as I told on first message.

I think untill the last step ( before to return back on the dmt), I followed correctly the tuto to set the bevel. It just can't get the edge finer, that's why I draw the last picture. The shape ( triangle) of the blade does not let to have a correct edge which cut the hairs. And that's why I think the blade need to be grinded from the spine to edge for get ready to be honed as told in the Tuto. Otherwise I have a big hone wear.

I don't know if I was correct, I'm not an expert neither so I will wait for some other people give advise before to take it back. But for,now I don't see an other way to hone it without,lift up the spine.

Well please share your advises :)

I did it! :y :y :y

As I told the blade was too fat after reduced its width. After tried many times the heavy bevel set which was for hollow and semi hollow razors and for the wedges which did,not lost too,much of their volume, this afternoon I decided to take it back and set up its angles to have a edge. And yes, finally it worked. I honed it and just shaved, it's a comfortable blade, soft shave.

Glad you got it worked out. Any work like that on an old wedge is going to take time.