Advice needed on new razor

Hello Gents,
My brother bought me a Ralf Aust razor for my birthday (yeah, he's ok). This was an ebay purchase and when it got in I was on vacation. He looked it over and thought it looked great. When I received it I was of course grateful but I was disappointed in the bevel grind (see pic). I was also not crazy about the scale construction but they are pretty.
I looked over the edge and the bevels do meet but as you can see by the pics the grind is uneven and the edge doesn't sit flat on the stone on one side:
Attachment 224045Attachment 224046
Notice the wide, deep grind on the heel on one side.
Based on what you see, how would you approach this? I was hoping not to start this razor using tape.
Let me know what you think?
Thanks,
Paul

You are most likely going to have to go the tape route to fix the bevil... I would start with two pieces and try to even out the edge, then remove the extra tape and bone normally.
That's still a great gift!!

That razor is crazy messed up. Send it to a pro.

Pro. Tape won't sort uneven spine wear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ernie1980

You are most likely going to have to go the tape route to fix the bevil... I would start with two pieces and try to even out the edge, then remove the extra tape and bone normally.
That's still a great gift!!

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Thanks Ernie,
I was going to start with a Hard Arkansas but maybe it would be better to drop it down a stone, which for me would be the Washita. No reason to go as far down as a Soft Arkansas right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dmnc

Pro. Tape won't sort uneven spine wear.

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I was hoping the spine was ok and they just messed up the initial bevel set. Wanting to do the work myself for the fun of it; got to get my money out of these rocks!
Thanks,
Paul

Welcome to the world of ebay specials. If you are wanna fix that one with an Arkie it will take you a very long time. This razor needs its bevel reset.
Here's a link to the relevant helpfile: Bevel-setting in theory and practice - Straight Razor Place Library
Read and digest and we'll answer any questions if you do have one or more.

Struggling to see with my phone and pics. Was assuming if the bevel was funked up that badly then spine would be too. I'd go all the way back to 1000 grit and carefully set bevel using sharpie test etc. If you can hone I don't see the benefit to tape as you'll slowly be ruining the intended geometry of the razor.

Yep, even if you drop back to a soft Arkie, you'll be there a while trying to sort that out. Not impossible if you've got time to spare.

From the two photos you provided it looks like a couple of things going on. First the razor has a straight spine and a slightly smiling edge profile, second it looks like the razor probably has a bit of a warp, both common challenges.

If it were on my bench I would first check to see how warped it is, take it back to 1K and rework the bevel using rolling "X" stokes.
If the warp is pronounced the honer may have to use a 45 degree angle stroke to work the concave side and a rolling "X" on the other. Fairly simple honing gymnastics should get this edge up and shaving but it needs to go back to bevel set for correction, then hone with the appropriate progression using strokes that will keep the edge on the stone.

I have enough faith in Aust razors to speculate that anything wrong with that razor is due to honing not grinding. Spine looks unworn so just tape it and hone it or send it to someone else who can. A straight spine and slightly smiling edge is not that uncommon.

Because if the smiling edge you will have to use a rolling X stroke.

So, been playing around with this razor for a bit (a lot) and the main issue is it has a significant warp near the heel (starts about a quarter of the way from the heel). This is why someone ground it so heavy on one side. I started out on my soft arkie; it is the coarsest stone I have and well, you know, slow. After quite a while and checking with ink I realized I was removing metal but the contact was not changing much (initially progress but soon hit a point, the beginning of the warp, when it stopped progressing). I then went to two layers of tape and same thing but just with a narrower bevel.
Here are some pics with two layers of tape:
Attachment 224095
Attachment 224096.

The blade itself doesn't have a smile but the heel was ground off somewhat and gives it that smile look on that end.

Might need to get me some additional arrows in my quiver, but even then with a warp like this? Might be beyond me but I'll continue to play with it. Wasn't all that thrilled with the overall razor anyway (but I won't tell my brother that).
Thanks for reading and any advice is welcome.
Paul

Can't see your pictures!

Can't see pics either. Struggle to think warp is original given Aust reputation. Any evidence razor been dropped or similar?

Paul, pics won’t load, use the photo loader, 3rd icon from the right on the upper toolbar.

Some better photos of the spine and heel would help.

Let me see if this works.

Attachment 224116
Attachment 224117

My 5/8 Aust has a warp. It's not bad but it does need a little bit of a smile to keep the bevels even and in contact with the hone while using a rolling x. I pretty much use a rolling x for when the convex side is down then a 45* stroke straight down the hone on the concave side. The concave side will show you large bevels at toe and heel. The convex side will show you a larger bevel in the middle, all you need to do is modify your strokes to create even bevels. I prefer to do some Japanese strokes with the concave side down, this gives me a guide for when I flip the razor over. I then put a finger on the toe and then the heal and do Japanese strokes to even up the bevels to the middle. I just go back and forth counting strokes to keep the bevels even height wise. Sooner or later it will get there. When it looks good remove your tape get out your sharpie and use whatever strokes match your new even bevels. I'm sure there are faster ways to do it but given the way that razor looks it shouldn't take anything drastic to get them even all the way across and from side to side. Just remember the most important thing is that you set the bevel everything after that is aesthetics.

I'm glad you made a post, when I finally figured it out I ground at least a 1/16" off my RA.


on another note if you want a straight edge you'll need to bend it until the edge is straight. Don't do this you will almost inevitably snap it. No amount of grinding the spine will straighten a warped edge. As was seen recently in another thread a guy ground the hell out of a really nice razor trying to fix a problem that didn't exist in spine. This is problem that needs to be fixed by modifying your stroke not grinding a spine or bending a razor. As you hone more razors it is likely you will have many more that are warped then straight. In my own collection I have about 85% warped blades that are at least a little warped, i.e. Enough to have to use some amount of rolling x stroke.

Some additional picts of the blade cleaned up of ink and tape glue. Any spine wear you now see is from me.
Attachment 224123
Attachment 224124
Attachment 224125
Attachment 224126
Attachment 224127
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Attachment 224129

Thanks Jfk, this is really helpful!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jfk742

My 5/8 Aust has a warp. It's not bad but it does need a little bit of a smile to keep the bevels even and in contact with the hone while using a rolling x. I pretty much use a rolling x for when the convex side is down then a 45* stroke straight down the hone on the concave side. The concave side will show you large bevels at toe and heel. The convex side will show you a larger bevel in the middle, all you need to do is modify your strokes to create even bevels. I prefer to do some Japanese strokes with the concave side down, this gives me a guide for when I flip the razor over. I then put a finger on the toe and then the heal and do Japanese strokes to even up the bevels to the middle. I just go back and forth counting strokes to keep the bevels even height wise. Sooner or later it will get there. When it looks good remove your tape get out your sharpie and use whatever strokes match your new even bevels. I'm sure there are faster ways to do it but given the way that razor looks it shouldn't take anything drastic to get them even all the way across and from side to side. Just remember the most important thing is that you set the bevel everything after that is aesthetics.

I'm glad you made a post, when I finally figured it out I ground at least a 1/16" off my RA.


on another note if you want a straight edge you'll need to bend it until the edge is straight. Don't do this you will almost inevitably snap it. No amount of grinding the spine will straighten a warped edge. As was seen recently in another thread a guy ground the hell out of a really nice razor trying to fix a problem that didn't exist in spine. This is problem that needs to be fixed by modifying your stroke not grinding a spine or bending a razor. As you hone more razors it is likely you will have many more that are warped then straight. In my own collection I have about 85% warped blades that are at least a little warped, i.e. Enough to have to use some amount of rolling x stroke.

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Paul, looking at the spine and heel pics, spine looks good with very little wear. If it is warped, I don’t think it is much, not more than normal.

I do see some wear on the stabilizer and shoulder which could account for the extra wear on the heel.

Often if an inexperienced honer rides up on the shoulder, the heel edge comes off the stone, so they add more pressure with the shoulder acting as a fulcrum and the geometry at the heel is thrown off. The extra pressure grinds the heel also causing a sharp point.

Just tape and ink as you are and make sure you are honing to the edge at the heel. You also may want to round out the point that is starting, before you hone it, that point will cut you eventually. Use a heel forward X stroke to clear the shoulder and hone the heel.

The bevel will be a bit wide at the heel but will shave fine.

To follow up:
Even with two layers of tape, there was no way that I was going to set the bevel with the hones that I have; unless I spent countless hours. Not having a bevel setter, and not too attached to the Aust, I used some 600 wet/dry to set the bevel (wince) and then followed it with 2000 wet/dry (too big a jump). It definitely removed some metal (I cut the wet/dry to the size of my hone and wet it, held it flat). Then I kind of raced it through my hones. It produced an edge with lots of micro-chips and un-shavable. I put it aside and yesterday finally found some time to spend with it.
I jointed the edge heavily and went down to the washita stone (which I've finally decided is my coarsest stone) to set the bevel; about an hour plus later I still was not there. I got some 2000 wet/dry and set it within a few minutes. Then much quality time with the washita, soft, hard and finally the translucent (lots of changing of tape; kind of hate using tape, messy, is it more so with oil stones vs water?). I stropped it on leather and looked over the edge and it looked good. Stropped 10 on crox, 30 linen and 60 leather.
I have to say this mornings shave was most satisfying. Starting to like the Ralf Aust!
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Attachment 227377

Nice to see that you got it sorted. From the pictures it doesn't look like it has that bad of a warp. It looks like whoever had it before you didn't take the warp or the slight smile into account when they honed it.

Congratulations on getting a bevel set using Arkansas hones. They are very slow. But you did it and I am sure it taught you a lot about honing.