Disaster Repair

Let me preface this post by saying, "I am not a honemeister." I have honed a few razors that I purchased on eBay to practice with, and I had fixed a chip in one of my Thiers Issards. I have always hated thinking there was something I could not learn and do. I have watched many of the videos of Lynn and Glen making it look easy and I seemed to be able to do a decent job on the practice razors.

Recently while shaving with one of my Mastro Livi razors (not one of yours Jimmy :)), I rinsed it off between strokes and while bringing it up out of the sink I let it tap the faucet. It didn't seem like much but when looking at it under magnification, there was a section that was about 1/4 inch long where the edge chipped. My first impulse was to contact Mastro Livi and pay him to fix it, but I began thinking of the aggravation of shipping it to Italy to have it honed.

On the ride home from work this evening, I began thinking about the money I have spent on hones and decided to man up and attempt it myself. After all if I was not able to fix it I could always send it off to the master. I started off by breadknifing it to remove the chipped area. Then I used a 1000 grit stone to set a bevel, followed by a coticule stone. I then went to a 12000 stone and finally a 30000 stone. I then finished it off with CrOx and a Neil Miller strop. It shaves my arm really well, and I will be using it to shave with in the morning. Will post the results.

You had to look with magnification to see the chip and still felt the need to bread knife it? That sounds extreme but I was not there. I always feel like you have to go past the chip a little bit to get to a great edge. I think you probably could have pulled it out with the 1k. Live and learn. I have honed out some ugliness with a 1k and the really ugly stuff I raised the spine. I am hoping that is what you are calling bread knifing

You are quite brave! If I ever damage my Livi, it might not go back to Italy but it is for certain not going to be mangled by me...
Did you take a picture of the damage?

What does "bread-knifing" mean?

Holding the edge perpendicular to the DMT or hone and sawing back and forth until the chip is gone along with the edge. It's usually better to lift the spine off the hone at a 30-45 degree angle and do x-strokes. Less damage to the edge and it's easier to get back to sharp

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Originally Posted by Fruiteater

What does "bread-knifing" mean?

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Actually I saw what looked odd with my eyes before breaking out a loupe, and under magnification confirmed it to be a chipped area. I did consider just trying to hone it out, but thought it would take quite a bit more work than the way I did it. I did not go crazy bread-knifing it, but just enough to remove most of the chips. In retrospect the methods suggested by rezdog and rodb would have worked, and if faced with the choice again I will try it.

I shaved with it this morning, and although it shaved ok I think I will still fine tune it a bit. It seemed to leave a bit more than usual on the WTG pass, and did much better ATG. I appreciate the observations and suggestions, as they are a large part of what makes this forum such a great place.

I'm with rezdog. If you needed a loupe to see the bad spot, the 1000 should have been adequate.

Be glad that was all the worse it was. A Livi is to be treasured.

What you did is an accepted practice, if you have a chip, no matter how you remove it, the exact same amount of metal will have to be removed, to the bottom of the chip. There is bread-knifing and there is BREAD-KNIFING, The difference is the amount of pressure and time on the stone. Though for small chips, it is not the first choice.

Bread-knifing, is where you are sawing on the stone face, as if cutting a slice of bread, back and forth from heel to toe, with the whole edge on the stone, not a traditional honing stroke.

If it is a small chip or micro-chip, jointing may have been, a lesser aggressive alternative. Jointing, lightly drawing the edge on the corner of the stone, will remove a small amount of the edge, enough to reach the bottom of a small chip. You can actually feel the chip as it hits the corner. A Jointed edge, has the benefit of easily being re-set, in 20-30 laps of regular honing on a high grit stone, depending on how many strokes and how much pressure was used.

Many small chips can just be hone out, by normal honing on a 4k. A 4k does not leave deep stria, that will have to be removed and if you need to, you can always drop down to a 1k.


High angle honing, with the spine off the hone, 45 degrees or higher is another method and is often considered bread-knifing.

All of the methods will remove exactly the same amount of material. No matter how you do it, you have to remove the steel from the edge equal to the bottom of the chip.
For large chips, I rest the spine on a piece of foam, edge straight up and with a 300 grit diamond file, file the edge down to the bottom of the chip in long even strokes. Then true up and straighten the edge with a diamond plate and bevel the edges to start a bevel, leaving a thin amount of metal at the edge, not fully meeting. Then hone on a 1K.

You want to start, with the least destructive method first, if not successful you can get more aggressive with a lower grit, more pressure or more laps.

More than likely, your bevel is not fully set, very common after heavy stock removal. Look straight down on the edge with magnification and in strong light. Any shiny spot you see are where the bevels are not meeting.

Tape the spine and re-set the bevel until you do not see shiny reflections on the edge. Then work your way up the progression. Your progression has some big holes/jumps from 1k to 12K.

The coticule can do it, but with heavy slurry and a lot of laps, a 4/8k would easily fill that gap and skip the coticule.

Here is a good video of what to look for


and this thread (Second try at Honing) has lots of good honing info and great micrographs of bevels and edges to compare your bevels to.

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Originally Posted by Ernie1980

You are quite brave! If I ever damage my Livi, it might not go back to Italy but it is for certain not going to be mangled by me...
Did you take a picture of the damage?

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It's a thin line between brave and foolhardy, but I have never resolved myself to being unable to learn something. By making the attempt and posting it here, I have learned a lot that I would not have otherwise. As for the picture, no I did not think of it, although I should have remembered that on most forums the "pictures or it didn't happen" rule is common, here to some extent and on fishing forums it is the law. :-)