Pros and cons and methodology

I wouldn't say I'm anywhere near being a honemeiser. I can sharpen a blade. I've been using film, a swaty and white pasted strop with acceptable results for me.
I'm looking to upgrade. I'm sure every has their own prefernce as what stone the love much like their preference to a soap.
So... Norton, dmt, what the hell is a slury, do you have to home in a sink or water bath? Let's not even get started on nats. I'm looking for minimal fuss and muss, no dedicated honing stations, or taking a bath with stones.
Thanks for the input.

What hone(s), paste(s), or spray(s) do I need? - Straight Razor Place Library

Read this first - most of your questions will be answered here - then tell us where you live - I'm sure a member near you would be happy to help

There is no one answer to your question just a lot of good suggestions

1k 4k 8k King, Norton or Naniwa. The old standard basic set up and all you will ever NEED really.

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Originally Posted by Clayglen

I wouldn't say I'm anywhere near being a honemeiser. I can sharpen a blade. I've been using film, a swaty and white pasted strop with acceptable results for me.
I'm looking to upgrade. I'm sure every has their own prefernce as what stone the love much like their preference to a soap.
So... Norton, dmt, what the hell is a slury, do you have to home in a sink or water bath? Let's not even get started on nats. I'm looking for minimal fuss and muss, no dedicated honing stations, or taking a bath with stones.
Thanks for the input.

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From a minimalist perspective, your Swaty is all you need. Since you want to "upgrade," let's get started.

Okay, so naturals are out. Despite centuries of honers using coticules, we'll toss those out right off the bat.

It would help if you would give a better sense of the upgrade you are seeking. What are you looking to do? Are you just maintaining your current razors or are you looking to hone more razors? Will you just be touching up previously sharp razors or starting from a re-set of the bevels? Are you looking for a single hone or a progressive series of grits of hones?

If you want just a single hone for better edge maintenance, it really is hard to beat the Naniwa Specialty 12k. If you want more recommendations, please give a better sense of what you are looking to do.

What do you mean by upgrade? If you are getting good results and you should be with film, better than only a handful of stones, what improvement are you looking for?

Forget the Swaty, it is 6-8k at best, film goes up to 60K.

Stick to one system and learn it, not many 60k stones… Honing is only as complicated as you make it.

Oh, and you might want to find out what your "White Paste" is, you may just be going backwards.

It is as ridiculous to assign a grit rating to a Swaty as it is to assign one to a natural hone. The size of the grit used in the Swaty has no bearing on its ability to create a shave-able edge. The simple question is, are you happy with the shaves you get from the Swaty's edges?

Since you are looking to upgrade, is this due to what you have read here or from a dissatisfaction from your current shaves?

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Originally Posted by 10Pups

1k 4k 8k King, Norton or Naniwa. The old standard basic set up and all you will ever NEED really.

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If all he wants is razor maintenance, he's already got all he NEEDS.

This is clearly about wants. :rofl2:

I would say, do what I didn't do. Start with a good finisher, and an 8K of which ever brand you choose. Start learning to hone from there down. If you (as a new honer) take one of your razors to a 1K hone it could be a long, long time before you get it shave ready again. Ask me how I found that out...

Take it in small bites. Maybe a Norton or Naniwa 8K, and a finisher of your choice (typically a 12K or 16K). Read around and learn to prep the surface of your hones. I tend to treat all mine at least a little like naturals - I lap on a Norton flattening stone, then polish them up to 2K (depending on grit) with wet or dry sand paper. You kind of have to with the Norton flattening stone because it leaves some fairly deep scratches and my experience says those need to be gone. Which brings me to my next point - get a DMT for lapping. The 325 mesh will save you a lot of headaches. Learn to touch up on the 8k, then finish your edge. Once you've got that down, pick up a 4K and learn to use that with blades that need more work than the 8K can handle in a timely fashion. The last phase would be picking up a 1K hone and learning to set a bevel.

I don't have a dedicated honing station, just an old tool box my hones sleep in when not in use. Nothing stays in water, I toss 'em in a bucket for a 5-10 minute soak while I'm setting up (turning on the tunes, fishing out the pan, and cracking a beer - the most important part of honing!) I have an old baking pan dedicated to honing - contains the mess and makes clean up easier. I have the Norton system, 220/1K and 4K/8K combination hones. Will probably trade those in for single grit 1K, 4K, and 8K hones. The 1k and 8K have grown on me, I used to have a pretty strong dislike for them. The 4K...well in all fairness I screwed mine up by lapping it sloped, and then wearing it away trying to fix it, which only made the problem exponentially worse. I may buy another single grit just to start fresh and give it a fair shake. Still on the fence on that decision, but they do work.

I'm doing a few restores and the lapping film works fine. I have a question in my mind as to when a new sheet is needed. An upgrade on my film surface is needed to continue. A bit of lapped marble tile that needs to be trimmed to size a bit better.
An upgrade, in my mind, is more permanent than film, is more handy than swapping sheets back and forth, doesn't large amounts of work space or water tanks, baths, maintenance to the stone, costs less than my first car.
My first thought was a Norton 4k/8k. One stone, plus paste stropping on blue jeans for finish.
Swatty works fine honestly. Not exactly a finish stone but the white paste (original on my double duck strop) seems to smooth things out, with a stropping.
Just ready to take it all to the next level. 8k DMT seems like less fuss than the Norton.
I have no understanding of slury. Naturals would be fine if there was some way of judging them, in my mind. There is no contention on what a Norton 8k is. A natural is a natural stone. Could be 8k could be 10k, could be awesome could be a lemon. Yes buy it from a reputable dealer, etc.
That's where I'm at.
Thanks

Well you really cannot go wrong with the Norton 4/8 for the intermediate honing progression. Then would come something like the swaty I guess, and after that there are a heap of options for finishers.

James.

So as I understand the Norton, you soak it, then keep it wet? Can this be done on the couch while the gf watches her shows?

Yes that's right. In fact my norton 4/8 has been kept in water since I bought it back in 2006. I suppose you could use it on the couch if you wanted, but you'll need a steady hand, a towel on your lap, and probably an understanding girlfriend.

James.

Yes, the Norton can be soaked and can be kept wet. The 4k is in much greater need for soaking than the 8k, which is hard enough that it pretty much is a splash and go hone. Yes, you can hone on the couch while the gf watches her shows.

The DMT 8k will not give you a comfortable shave. It just won't. Among different hones, not all 8k hones, or 4k hones, or 1k hones, or 12k hones do the same thing in the same manner. This is especially the case for the DMT 8k.

I forgot to address the slurry question. Slurry is grit off of the hone that is suspended in water on the surface of the hone. This slurry can increase the speed of the cutting action of the hone being used.

If you want to do restoration honing, then you might want a series of hones. This normally would involve 1k hone for bevel setting, one or two hones for refining the edge after the bevel set, and then a polishing hone to make the shave more comfortable.

Examples of series would be...
the Norton 1k, 4, 8k.
The Naniwa Specialty 1k, 2k, 5k, 8k, and 12k.
The Naniwa Specialty 1k, 3k, 8k, and 12k.
Either of the above two with just the Naniwa Pro 1k replacing the Specialty 1k.
A comparable progression of Shapton Pro or GlassStone hones.

Meh, messy. What about DMT 8k? Do they need lapping, soaking etc?

Oh, i can deal with spash. Soaking/honing tub is a bit much.
How about Naniwa vs Norton?
Glass vs the above?

Norton progression, TV tray with a baking pan and a spray bottle. Pull the norton from it's water trough, throw it on the pan, and hone away. Squirt as necessary, no slurry needed. They're only as messy as you make em.

The DMT is a no go for razors. Too aggressive, won't be comfortable. Per Utopian above. You'd likely be right back to lapping films and other things trying to get the edge softened back up so you can actually shave with the razor.

I've looked and your options for Synthetics are essentially Nortons, Naniwas, or Shaptons. The only time any diamond hone is really used is maybe* a 600 or 1K to hog out steel on a badly damaged bevel.

Buy 4 glass 3X12 tiles from Lowe’s $20 and you’re done.

Or Norton, Naniwa, Shapton or King 1,4,8 or there about, set or combo stones, brand does not matter. Paste a strop with razor quality Chrome Oxide.

None will be an improvement over what you have now. Easier? Eh…

As far as I am aware the DMT 8K is a diamond plate, so no it doesn't need lapping or soaking. A bit of water for lubrication is all you'd need there.

However, I am not sure that's the solution to your problem. A honing progression is not all that messy. You could get away with 3 stones:

1. A low-grit 1K synthetic like a chosera;
2. The Norton 4/8K combo stone;
3. A finisher, for example the Shapton 16K ceramic on glass.

James.

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Buy 4 glass 3X12 tiles from Lowe’s $20 and you’re done.

Or Norton, Naniwa, Shapton or King 1,4,8 or there about, set or combo stones, brand does not matter. Paste a strop with razor quality Chrome Oxide.

None will be an improvement over what you have now. Easier? Eh…

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Thank you, I forgot about King hones.

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Buy 4 glass 3X12 tiles from Lowe’s $20 and you’re done.

Or Norton, Naniwa, Shapton or King 1,4,8 or there about, set or combo stones, brand does not matter. Paste a strop with razor quality Chrome Oxide.

None will be an improvement over what you have now. Easier? Eh…

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Do ya have to lap the tiles? My adventure in cutting window glass was a bust. [emoji20]
Looking at SRD, Norton combo 4k/8k, is the best value. Lapping film finish for now, play with paste.
I see SRD has "slurry stone". What's that all about?

One more thought, completely sacreligious, if one were to hone say a block plane blade or a wood chisel. Could you just lap in a bathtub and be good for razors again?

I would think as long as you don't scratch or dig into the hone you'd be fine treating it the same as if you were honing straights. I can't imagine it would need any different treatment. Not sure I would choose my bathtub as a place to lap things though. :hmmm:

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Originally Posted by Marshal

I would think as long as you don't scratch or dig into the hone you'd be fine treating it the same as if you were honing straights. I can't imagine it would need any different treatment. Not sure I would choose my bathtub as a place to lap things though. :hmmm:

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Hey lots of water, maybe a swipe with some arko soap to float the swarf. [emoji6]
It could be tickity boo. [emoji41]

Thanks for all the info guys. I really appreciate it.

You don’t have to lap the tiles, but you get better adhesion and grit to razor contact on the film. They lap easy with 80, 220 grit wet & Dry, finish with some 400 or a diamond plate on a dollar store cookie sheet on a piece of flat flooring and water. Stick the paper to the sheet and go to town.

Lap your stones the same way. If you are going to use the same stone for tools use one side for razors, the other for knives and tools. Or just re-lap them when done.

Be careful with soap, some stones don't like them, (Nortons).

Good to know about the soap. I was more or less joshing but do use lather on the swatty.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

In fact my norton 4/8 has been kept in water since I bought it back in 2006.

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Any year now there may be a new life form crawling out of that water. It's like a mini coral reef system in a bucket.

It isn't pretty in there sometimes I have to admit. Especially when it's been a few weeks between honing sessions. But the water gets changed every eon or so...

James.

There should be enough residue in the pores of the hones to keep the population alive. Someday Jimbo, they will raise a statue in your honor.

Don't worry, though, you should be able to lap it right off.

Ok Naniwa 5000/8000/12000 grit set, seems to the new fav. It says not to use it for chisles. Is it softer than a Norton?

Yes the Naniwas are softer than the Nortons. If you really want to do tool and razor honing on the same hones, then I would suggest that you look for single grit hones that are not mounted on bases. That way one side of each hone can be dedicated for a single purpose.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

There should be enough residue in the pores of the hones to keep the population alive. Someday Jimbo, they will raise a statue in your honor.

Don't worry, though, you should be able to lap it right off.

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Someone else watches the Twilight Zone marathon on New Year's Eve! :tu

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Originally Posted by Clayglen

Ok Naniwa 5000/8000/12000 grit set, seems to the new fav. It says not to use it for chisles. Is it softer than a Norton?

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Naniwas are too soft to use on chisels and plane irons. Even a stropping motion will dig into the hone. But you can hone carving knifes on them.

Nortons work fine on woodworking tools, knives, and razors. Just lap the stones when switching between blades.

And just to throw one more hone in the mix, the black Arkansas stone is the go to finisher in woodworking.

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Originally Posted by Clayglen

Do ya have to lap the tiles? My adventure in cutting window glass was a bust. [emoji20]
Looking at SRD, Norton combo 4k/8k, is the best value. Lapping film finish for now, play with paste.
I see SRD has "slurry stone". What's that all about?

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Originally Posted by NewellVW

Someone else watches the Twilight Zone marathon on New Year's Eve! :tu

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I saw one episode at a friend's house this year. That's the extent of my marathon experience, but I think I do remember the statue episode. I actually was thinking of this TV episode with Cartman and the Sea Men.

Attachment 226553

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Originally Posted by Utopian

Yes the Naniwas are softer than the Nortons. If you really want to do tool and razor honing on the same hones, then I would suggest that you look for single grit hones that are not mounted on bases. That way one side of each hone can be dedicated for a single purpose.

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Thank you. For the coin I'd want as many uses as I can. I'm frugal. Lotta uses justifies it my mind. So, we're back to Nortons.
Lapping on paper... does the paper grit need to be similar to the grit of the stone? I would think 600 on a 8000 stone might leave scratches.
How do king stones compare? I saw some on Amazon. Some are quite inexpensive. Are there different grades?
I'd like to upgrade and get a bit more serious. I'm not sure I'm $400 serious.
Back to thinking a Norton 4k/8k.

But the Norton 4k/8k only has one side for each grit so that means if you do choose to use it for tools and razors you will be doing more lapping to keep correcting the surface for razors. You can lap on quality w/d sandpaper and no it does not need to be comparable in grit size. You'd be fine with about 400 grit sandpaper for both hones. Just use no more pressure than the weight of the hone and rub the hone with your palm well after lapping to remove any potential transferred grit.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

But the Norton 4k/8k only has one side for each grit so that means if you do choose to use it for tools and razors you will be doing more lapping to keep correcting the surface for razors. You can lap on quality w/d sandpaper and no it does not need to be comparable in grit size. You'd be fine with about 400 grit sandpaper for both hones. Just use no more pressure than the weight of the hone and rub the hone with your palm well after lapping to remove any potential transferred grit.

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True. I think I can lap quite a bit for half the price. If I go pro, then it would be a different story for sure. I'm not pro in restores or in wood working so... seems more practical.