4th honing success, using film...

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02-25-2016, 11:12 PM
pcm

4th honing success, using film...

Just thought I'd write about the fourth honing I did, and comment in some observations I had, as a novice...

Razor was a Dovo Best Quality from SRD that had been pro honed upon purchase and once with a free honing. It was getting dull, after 40-50 shaves, and I wanted to sharpen it up myself, having successfully done two other honing so recently, beyond my first honing, which was a very minor touch up.

I wasn't sure how low to go on grit, so I decided to do 8k, and then 16k, followed by a test shave. also, I want to try the films that Euclid440 gave me (THANKS!), and didn't have a chance to use on the last honing.

I used one layer of tape - didn't want to risk wearing the spine, and I started doing heel leading X strokes. I'd do 10-20 strokes and check with my microscope, to see how things are going. Initial observations...

- The stria seems to be very even with the film, and it seemed to go pretty quickly, compared with # strokes I needed on stones.

- Film was a bit finicky, sliding around for a while. Eventually it stuck and was easier to do. I also tried the film on my 12k Naniwa, I steal of glass tile, which has a little rounded edge. Stone worked, but film is bigger than hone, and hung over the ends and other side. No big issue.

- The Dovo edge is so narrow, that it is harder to check the edge - had to use higher magnification.

- I noticed that it didn't seem to hone right up to the heel and toe, so I eventually modified my stroke to apply a finger tip of pressure to the heel and toe, on the strokes.

- I also had a little trouble looking at the edge (straight down), under magnification, and it seemed like maybe the bevels weren't completely meeting, but I wasn't sure.

- Subjectively, it seems like I had more feedback from the stones, when honing and having area that didn't seem to be moving as smoothly across the surface. It may be my inexperience, or maybe I'm starting a bit to get a feel for the stones. Didn't notice that with the films.

I marched on through the two films, and did a test shave (no stropping) The irritation was moderate (not what I expected), and it seemed to pull a bit more than I expected on longer hairs, or ATG.

So, I decided to go down to lower grits. I had a 4K film, but I decided to go to my Norton 1k, and work on the bevel. I'm glad I did, because this time. I was positive that the bevel was meeting. It looked like my other razor, when looking down on the edge.

From there, I went to the 4K, 8k, and 16k films, doing heel leading X strokes, with pressure, based on what I was seeing on the microscope. I used the trick I figured out last honing, of doing a few perpendicular strokes and checking with the microscope to see if there was older, deeper stria at 45 degree angle, to tell if I'm honing to the edge completely.

Overall, I spent only an hour honing (big surprise). I did a test shave today, and it was fabulous. No irritation, close, and only a little difficulty ATG on my chin, which is always hard. Very pleased.

My next step is to try the 0.3 (white) film, with paper under, and see how that feels.

It has been fun trying the film, and I'm so glad to have another good honing (especially after honing #3 with microchipping, and bad steel - a long process).

Not sure if I'll use the film that often, as I have a set of stones, but who knows, maybe I'll like them for finishing, as my finest stone is 12k SS.
02-27-2016, 10:22 PM
pcm

4 Attachment(s)

Well,

A bit of a set back with the 0.3 (white) film with a sheet of paper under. I did 10 X strokes (one layer of tape still), and then test shaved. It pulled more than with the 1um film, and was not as comfortable. I'm not sure if I did too many strokes, too much pressure, or something else. I looked at the edge, with my microscope, and the edge does not look as good. Is this rolled or a wire edge (I only see it on one side)?

Attachment 229755 Attachment 229756 Attachment 229757 Attachment 229758

Looks like it is on the left side, so from when I hone away from my body.

Should I drop to 1um film and retry?
Should I use less pressure or fewer strokes with 0.3um film?

Regards,

PCM
02-28-2016, 01:30 AM
Euclid440

Yea, joint the edge on the corner of a high grit stone, one or two strokes then reset the edge, with the 1um. It should re-set quickly.

It could be too much pressure or too many laps.

Not all razors can take and keep a nano grit edge.
02-28-2016, 01:55 PM
pcm

I'm wondering sInce it is only showing on one side, when I hone should I focus more on that side, or continue to treat each side the same?
02-28-2016, 03:02 PM
Euclid440

No, you want to do the same number of laps, on each side to keep the edge asymmetrical, but possibly fewer laps. Not sure why that one side rolled.

Is this the razor that was having edge issues? It may be, it will not hold that thin of an edge. If it fails again, try honing on 1um with paper and skip the .03um paper or maybe just do 3-5 laps on .03um to try and polish just the edge.

You can see by the polish on the edge where the paper is concentrating the polish on half of the bevel from the edge back in photos 1 & 2, but also where the edge is very thin. Film is deceptively aggressive.

So, with a lot of this kind of experimentation, you are taking the edge to the extreme, or to failure. Then just back it off, just a bit, until you get to the point you have a usable edge. In this case, I think the issue is with the razor steel, not so much technique.

The bevel does look nice, good work.
02-28-2016, 04:11 PM
gssixgun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Yea, joint the edge on the corner of a high grit stone, one or two strokes then reset the edge, with the 1um. It should re-set quickly.

It could be too much pressure or too many laps.

Not all razors can take and keep a nano grit edge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Is this the razor that was having edge issues? It may be, it will not hold that thin of an edge. If it fails again, try honing on 1um with paper and skip the .03um paper or maybe just do 3-5 laps on .03um to try and polish just the edge.

You can see by the polish on the edge where the paper is concentrating the polish on half of the bevel from the edge back in photos 1 & 2, but also where the edge is very thin. Film is deceptively aggressive.

So, with a lot of this kind of experimentation, you are taking the edge to the extreme, or to failure. Then just back it off, just a bit, until you get to the point you have a usable edge. In this case, I think the issue is with the razor steel, not so much technique.

^^^^^ Nailed it

I 110% agree this is something we tend not to talk about too much but honestly there are differences between razor steels, HT, and Tempering, many of them simply cannot handle extreme edges...
Others will hold onto it for the pretty pic and bragging rights and fail after the next 2 shaves :(

Always keeping in the back of our mind that it isn't rocket science and getting a comfortable shave is pretty easy, but heck for some of us it is about tilting at windmills and pushing the envelope

Hone On !!!!
02-28-2016, 09:58 PM
pcm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euclid440

No, you want to do the same number of laps, on each side to keep the edge asymmetrical, but possibly fewer laps. Not sure why that one side rolled.

Is this the razor that was having edge issues? It may be, it will not hold that thin of an edge. If it fails again, try honing on 1um with paper and skip the .03um paper or maybe just do 3-5 laps on .03um to try and polish just the edge.

You can see by the polish on the edge where the paper is concentrating the polish on half of the bevel from the edge back in photos 1 & 2, but also where the edge is very thin. Film is deceptively aggressive.

So, with a lot of this kind of experimentation, you are taking the edge to the extreme, or to failure. Then just back it off, just a bit, until you get to the point you have a usable edge. In this case, I think the issue is with the razor steel, not so much technique.

The bevel does look nice, good work.

This is a different blade, a Dovo. I did 1um and made sure the rolling was cleaned up, and then did weight of blade with 0.3um. Indeed it seems very aggressive. Will test shave Tuesday morning and see how it goes.
02-28-2016, 10:03 PM
pcm

Quote:

Originally Posted by gssixgun

^^^^^ Nailed it

I 110% agree this is something we tend not to talk about too much but honestly there are differences between razor steels, HT, and Tempering, many of them simply cannot handle extreme edges...
Others will hold onto it for the pretty pic and bragging rights and fail after the next 2 shaves :(

Always keeping in the back of our mind that it isn't rocket science and getting a comfortable shave is pretty easy, but heck for some of us it is about tilting at windmills and pushing the envelope

Hone On !!!!

Yeah, I had a good shave with the 1um film. Wanted to try the 0.3um to see how/if it changed the shave. It didn't, but not well. We'll see how this retry on the 0.3um does and how it holds over time (may be a while, because once I test shave it, I usually put it at the back of the queue for usage).

Appreciate the info on the steel, and caution about the blades ability to hold the edge. I'm learning quite a bit, and at the same time learning that there is much more to learn! :)
03-01-2016, 10:08 PM
pcm

Test shave, after the 0.3um film, this time was very good. Not irritating and seemed to cut well. Will oil up the blade and put it into the rotation. So glad that I finally got it honed well.