Honing old steel

I'm looking for input on the particulars of honing "old" steel. I have a couple of recent reclamation razors, a W&B and a Jonathan Crookes, both pre-1890 from what I understand as neither have the country of origin, just "Sheffield" along with their various makers marks and names. Both are about 1/4 ground. Both have a great looking sway back and corresponding smile. The W&B shows more hone wear than the Crookes. The W&B has a lot of heft to it but the Crookes isn't far behind. Both are more stout than the full-hollow early/mid 20th century razors I've been using (mostly a Krusius Brothers KB Extra).

My honing arsenal is simple; a couple of barber hones; an Old Timer I generally use with water and a Victory hone I use dry per the instructions written on it (dry with a rub from this round disk that came with it. The disk seems to clean it and leave a dry powder behind...kinda like a dry slurry). I have, on occasion, turned to a 2K ceramic stone I use for my woodworking tools when I need to remove a lot of metal. I've only used that twice, once on an old Hess that was badly frowned and on this Crookes...which I now think was not needed).

I've got the W&B sorta/mostly passing the HHT, and can feel a smooth reasonable draw on my thumb nail after honing and thumb pad after stropping. I can get a close shave with it, just not as comfortable as I'd like yet, which could be getting used to the dynamics of the different shape, grind and heft of the blade. I'm thinking this one just needs more stropping and I need more practice shaving with it.

The Crookes isn't that far along yet. Based on what I've done, felt on my thumb nail, and seen with a microscope, I'm thinking I need lighter honing strokes than I'm used to with my 20th century razors. I'm thinking as I approached a keen edge, with my usual firmer stroke I'm breaking off that final edge. Trying lighter strokes (and lots of them!), I'm getting a little more drag on my nail, but stropping hasn't finished it off.

Is this old steel more brittle? Am I imagining the difference? I'd appreciate any input from those of you who have experience honing this type of razor.

Thanks!

- Dale

Really old steel tends to be a little rotten at the edge from centuries of exposure to oxygen. You'll have to hone through this to good steel inside in order to get to something that will take and hold an edge. With barber hones it can take awhile.

1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper (make it wet) on a glass/marble/granite plate will speed up the process.

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Originally Posted by mparker762

Really old steel tends to be a little rotten at the edge from centuries of exposure to oxygen. You'll have to hone through this to good steel inside in order to get to something that will take and hold an edge. With barber hones it can take awhile.

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Rotten is a good description of some of the spots I see under the microscope. Maybe I do need to take the edge back with the 2k ceramic a bit more. I'll look and proceed carefully...easier than putting steel back :) .

- Dale

I seem to have found that some stuff I have like old W&B and FR razors actually shave better off a med-fine hone like the Gem from Tilly.

Has anyone else had this same experience??

Maybe some of the old razors just can't old that super fine edge??

I've always thought of the vintage blades as having a higher/softer quality to them. I agree with the oxidation removal first, after which I would treat them as softer metal, i.e. don't use thumb nail testing off the finishing hone and use only the weight of the blade for your final strokes. Barber hones, though slow, may be cutting at your vintage blades faster.

Interesting topic. I'm finding the same thing with my very old W&B (at least it's what I think it is). Under a 30x loop I see these round black spots that look like rot in the edge. Guess I'll just tape off the spine and hit the 1200 King stone.

Did you have any trouble with the W&B's smile on wide stones? I picked up some skinny stones to deal with this, but they feel cheap and are very soft, muddy. They may be purfict but I'm not sure. It sure is easier to keep the spine and edge lined up on the skinnier stones.

Thanks to some ponderings of this thread and others, as well as some more trial and error, I have both the old Englishmen shaving well now :D .

I have the W&B sharper than ever and more comfortable and I have shaved a couple of times with the Jonathan Crookes and it's great as well. I was doubting that I was going to get it past a display-only state. But in the end, it's sweet.

In short, I bounced back and forth on how aggressive to treat the Crookes edge. What I finally did was to use an aggressive stone carefully. I used my 1000 grit ceramic stone (normally for my woodworking tools only) with careful, firm, steady strokes. Worked the blade as evenly as I could with the swayed spine and lovely smile. Once I got some of the edge past the rot, I concentrated on the rest. The rest was not surprisingly the toe and heel. The smiling edge makes it easier to get uneven honing, but it also makes it easier to concentrate on specific regions. After I had it clean, I went back to the barber hones for smoothing and finished on the strops for that final edge.

Best part is that I think I upped my understanding of what it takes to get an edge. We'll see with the next razor :hmmm: .

Thanks for everyone's contributions.

- Dale

Dale,

Good work! I really like the way you described your approach--"using an aggressive stone carefully." I find this works very well in terms of developing an even, chip-free bevel on eBay razors.

For most of us, removing a lot of metal with a stone that's too fine, like the 4K Norton, is a good path to frustration and using too much pressure, which will result in double bevels, uneven hone wear, uneven bevels, etc.

Light, even strokes on a coarser hone give you more control, I think, than a lot of heavy grinding on a finer one. I'm in the minority on this one, though. :)

Josh