Having mixed success

Hello all, I've been experimenting with honing lately I've had some success. Been able to hone up a swedish razor I bought at an antique store as well as an old red imp from eBay. I'm using synthetic stones all naniwas, super stones with the plastic base glued on. My finishing stone is a 12k Naniwa from SRD. I have an RA torrey razor I've been working on I spent quite awhile on the 1k because there was a slight dip in the blade that I had to work past to get even contact on the hone. I also used two layers of tape, which I changed out with each grit progression. By the time I got done with the 8k it was poping hairs on my leg nicely so I went ahead and moved up to the 12k and finished it. Then strop and a quick shave test and it pulled like a son of a @*$%#. I'm not sure what the deal is here I'm using circles and with X strokes and the heel forward 45 stroke to cover the whole edge. 20 circles 20x and 20 45° strokes. Do I need to do more finishing strokes? I have a loupe and from my limited experience the edge looks good but I'm definitely missing something. Also I wonder if I should have ditched the tape after I worked past the flaws in the edge and reset the bevel on the 1k. Thanks guys hopefully someone will have some advice.

With the symptoms you described, it's never due to not enough time on the finishing hone. It's pretty much always due to not enough time on the 1k. Please understand that you should be able to shave off of a properly honed 1k hone. If you cannot shave off of the 1k edge, nothing you do beyond that will accomplish anything.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

With the symptoms you described, it's never due to not enough time on the finishing hone. It's pretty much always due to not enough time on the 1k. Please understand that you should be able to shave off of a properly honed 1k hone. If you cannot shave off of the 1k edge, nothing you do beyond that will accomplish anything.

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+1. A properly set bevel is the cornerstone of honing, an improperly set (unset) bevel is the root of nearly all honing problems.

I went back to the 1k last night and spent some quality time. Had it shaving with the 1k, moved through the progression again. Definitely better I shave tested it last night, tolerable but not quite there yet. I may need to spend a little more time on the 1k, or it's possible that I need a little more on the finishing stone.

40 laps are probably not enough, to set a bevel.

Circles are a way to remove metal quickly, good for early bevel setting strokes, but you must remove all the circle stria with straight strokes or you will end up with a chippy edge.

You have to do what the razor needs, (there is no, formula for honing a razor), and that you learn from looking at the bevels and edge with magnification.

Sharpie ink will tell you if you are honing to the edge. Looking at the edge straight down on it, will tell you when the bevel is set. If you see shiny spots, reflecting back at you, the bevel is not fully set, they are not meeting.

Here is a good post with lot of photos of what to look for in a fully set bevel. Second try at Honing.

Keep the tape on until you master honing...

I usually don't come off the 1k until the blade shaves arm hair fairly easily, something I learned from Glen and as he has stated several times in his honing videos 90% of honing is setting the bevel. Once the bevel is properly set each stone in the progression after that is sharpening, smoothing out the scratches from previous stones and polishing the edge.

Shaving arm hair (easily) is the best indicator imo, next to turning the edge up and looking straight down at it with proper lighting. I don't move on until all shiny spots are gone and the blade is cutting arm hair like butter.

Edit: If you've already got it shaving somewhat comfortably, you might be able to get away with simply dropping back a few steps. In my progression I would consider the 4k, but you mention that you have Naniwa hones? I would drop back to the 5k or 3K and see if that doesn't get it.

I took that razor back to the 1k for some serious work. After all the suggestions I made it a point for it to be taking off arm hair with ease before I moved on. My trouble was simple impatience, that and I've watched several videos where guys set a bevel in 40 laps. So I just thought I was doing something wrong, turns out they're working on razors in really good shape edge wise, the razors I've been practicing on most of them either haven't seen a hone in many years or never had a proper bevel. After considerable time I had it shaving very well and by the end it would pop hairs at the top instead of at the skin. I still haven't found that perfect finish, its just a tiny bit grabby so I may need to use my C12k on it a little more. By a little grabby I mean that in comparison to a couple of shave ready razors I bought from Larry Andro mine wasn't quite up to par, but still a comfortable shave with no burn.

You have learned the most valuable honing lesson. THERE IS NO FORMULA FOR BEVEL SETTING. It takes as long as it takes in order to get that most critical aspect of honing accomplished.

Exactly! Thanks for the help!

Very common to rush the bevel set, but you will pay for it in the end. Sometimes you get lucky and set it on the 4k, but next time it may or may not work.

So just take the time to be absolutely sure the bevel is set FULLY and that you have no chips, (hair test will not tell you if you have a chip).

Then just remove the 1k stria, the 4k and the 8.

If it the edge feels grabby look at it, with magnification, chances are it is micro-chipping. Lightly joint the edge on the corner of your 12k and re-set the edge on the 12k. It will re-set quickly. Then strop.