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Can somebody guide me besides using a Jeweler's loupe what is the best microscope to use to see the edge for honing. Would it be a stereo microscope a USB microscope or just a lighted Jeweler's loupe. I really want to see the edge extremely well. If someone recommends a USB microscope I would need a compatible for a Mac.. also how much magnification would be necessary. Thank you everybody for your help.
If you find out I would like to get the answer also. I was looking on Amazon for one and there are so many. Since I am starting out I dont want to sink to much money into one.
I know what you're saying. I bought a Veho USB 400x which I read a few people were using, got it working on my Mac but the magnification stayed at one level it never increased so I sent it back. So I'm waiting to hear from other people who have experience with this. I also spoke to a number of people who work 4 microscope websites and I only got more confused. I have a Jeweler's loupe but I would like to see a greater magnificationQuote:
Originally Posted by Dunkin78
I bought a carson microbrite plus. 60 to 120x magnification. I think it was about $12. The only downside is I can't upload magnified pics of issues. This can be very helpful. Overall it is pretty nice, but on the bulky side. Takes some coordination to view all of the bevel on both sides. Can't recommend a usb scope tho...
Thank you that may be a very inexpensive solution compared to what Scopes can go for
Thank you that may be an inexpensive possible solution. Scopes can be rather priceyQuote:
Originally Posted by dinnermint
I went for the cheapest solution. Although I have found that the 60x magnification is sufficient. I haven't found it helpful to chase razors sharp to the micon.
I got a Veho too. I was disappointed with the low magnification, but I found a review on Amazon that gave me the answer. You turn the focus all the way to close at the low magnification, then keep going, it changes to the high magnification and then focuses in that range. It isn't in the manual. The Veho stand is kinda crappy, at high magnification the focus is very thin, it's a bit fiddly to get a razor edge in focus, but it gives a nice view when you get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by rawfox1
USB scopes are OK but really all you need is a 10X jeweller's loupe. Higher magnifications are not all that useful in practice.
very timely question. i just finished testing a variety of handheld optical microscopes.
( I was looking for a simple way to see the edge, and did not want to involve a computer)
I will try to write up a complete post next week. Here are my top two:
1)Attachment 231242
Lumagny 50X LED.
The field of view is about the size of Lincoln's nose on a penny, very close edge detail.
around $12 .
2) Attachment 231243
Carson MA-60
The field of view is Lincoln's head on a penny. The advantage with this magnifier is the image is not reversed. I find the lower magnification is actually more useful. About $29.
I use them both.
Larry
Scopes are a double edge sword and the more magnification the more time it takes to use, and harder to hold steady on a thin bevel.
I have several different types and brands of glasses, scopes, loups and a USB scope and use them all for different purposes.
For honing, it is a pain to stop and put a razor under the USB scope. Which by the way, is 2 magnifications and focus at the extreme ranges. Mine is 60-400 power, it is not variable, which is what most folks think.
There are better, more expensive scopes out there, but for the money the Veho is hard to beat, mine came with software for Mac, though I have never used it on a Mac. Prices are all over the map, so shop around.
USB is great for teaching, (so we are all looking at the same thing), or for taking photos to document issues, But for every day honing it is too slow and not needed.
For honing I use the Carson MicroMax 200, 60-100 power ($5-15) and or the 60X lighted Loupe, (as little as $2). Both are quick to use the MicroMax can be fussy to focus, but the 100X is nice for the magnification once you get used to it.
The 60X is much quicker to use and focusing is not an issue. The bright light feature is very nice for razors. As I get older, the extra magnification is nice. For me, 60x is a good power, though I do have several 10 and 20 X that I use frequently as well, but the MicroMax and the 60x lighted loupe are always on the honing bench, for a quick look.
Attachment 231265Attachment 231266
Thanks for all the good info.Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
[QUOTE=Euclid440;1612316]Scopes are a double edge sword and the more magnification the more time it takes to use, and harder to hold steady on a thin bevel.
I have several different types and brands of glasses, scopes, loups and a USB scope and use them all for different purposes.
For honing, it is a pain to stop and put a razor under the USB scope. Which by the way, is 2 magnifications and focus at the extreme ranges. Mine is 60-400 power, it is not variable, which is what most folks think.
Yes, the ability to take and upload good photos is huge. I have coached a few guys on honing, with them taking photo on USB scopes of their issues and progress and it makes giving advice infinitely easier.
The good, clear photos these USB scopes are able to take make it so the honer and advisor are on the same page and talking about exactly the same thing. This is definitely a better way for new honers to get good advice on specific issues.
It is also great for honers to document progress and compare different stones and techniques. The prices of these scopes keep coming down and really make it affordable, I have seen them as low as $20.
Do make sure the software is compatible with your OS, not all are.
With the Veho, do remember to remove the clear plastic lens cover… it is easy to miss and you will never be able to focus with it on.
Also make sure the scope fits tight on the stand. Mine was loose, but a small piece of foam between the clamp and scope fixed that.
As said the power adjustment is at the ends of the focus, go all the way to one end and slowly come back.
My scope works best with the scope touching the blade. You will have to experiment with the blade angle to get the best photos of the bevel.
I find that placing the razor on a 6mm craft foam pad, with the scales open and 90 degrees away from the edge, with the scale hanging off the edge of the foam, brings most bevels parallel to the lens. Adjusting the light intentensity or angling the scope slightly can improve your photos and show more contrast when looking at stria.
I have photos of this set up, but I am going out the door now. I will look for them or take some new ones later today, if it is not clear. Bottom line play with the set up until you get good results, they are fussy but work well.
I dunno if a microscope is a good idea or not if you are a novice to honing. With the magnification microscopes offer they can turn what looks like and likely is a good edge under the magnification offered by a jeweler's loupe into what appears to be a cringe worthy edge. I think you could wind up driving yourself crazy trying to get a perfect edge under the very high magnification offered by microscopes.
Microscopes may be of value to veteran honers who know how to properly interpret what they are seeing under such high magnification.
Bob
I fully concur with BobH. I sold a very early Greaves wedge on eBay that was honed on coticles and finished on an Escher. It shaved like a dream - close, smooth, and a feel like buttered velvet. The buyer sent me a multi-paragraph message savaging me for the honing job and b*tching about the amount of work he had to do to fix it. I was pretty stunned and asked him how the shave was and mentioned that I almost didn't sell it because it shaved so well. To my surprise, he said that he hadn't actually shaved it at all, but had looked at it under his new microscope and stated bluntly that to shave with that edge would have been a bloodbath.
The lesson here is that just because an edge doesn't look like a 20k edge under a microscope doesn't mean there's a problem with it. The other lesson - if you want to return a razor for refund, don't hone it first!
Yes to all the above. I had what I thought would be an issue with a blade. 3 small chips in the blade at 60x mag. However, I heeded the advice I have read, after working on the blade for awhile and just shaved with it. It was a sublime shave. It become an experience to gain the knowledge of how imperfect an edge can be and still be a great shave. No one really needs a perfectly ground atom thick edge, if any steel can hold that edge anyways
There are a number of posts on this forum concerning using microscopes and newbies appearing to me to be running in circles with one foot nailed to the floor chasing their own tails trying to get a perfect edge under high microscope magnification.
I have, like dinnermint has said, shaved with a blade or two with very tiny chips as seen with a low powered jeweler's loupe. Surprise, the shaves were close and comfortable. Had I been using a microscope the issue of those tiny chips would have seemed enormous under high magnification. The shave will tell you more than you need to know.
Bob
I think for the greater majority of us what you need to see is the condition of the edge and you don't need much to see that. Yes, looking at an edge with an SEM is very interesting but that's about it.
As I've said before when you talk optics it is about quality and resolution not magnification. A quality hand lens at 30x will provide plenty of light (you don't need a built in light) and the objective will be large giving you excellent eye relief and it will be easy to focus. You will see more at 30x then a bargain basement magnifier at 100X. Just do a search for the usual brands like B&L or check out Deutsche Optik.
I use a stereomicroscope with magnification from 8x to 64x. This is quite enough magnification for most uses. The great advantage of a stereomicroscope is that focusing is accomplished by the positioning of the blade rather than the turning of a knob, so it is extremely quick. I can go back and forth from hone to microscope in a second.
Here's what I use
Attachment 231295
Attachment 231296
It's 20 to 250 power with a 4x zoom.
It has adjustable led lights.
It has become a very valuable tool for me when honing.
I love being able to use the built in screen that gives a beautiful image of a razors edge. The wireless mobility while working is a big plus too.
It will capture and store images and can be plugged into the computer if you want to go "full screen."
I got it on EBay under electronic microscopes from some place in China that had it on sale for a little under a hundred bucks.
For me...money very well spent!
Pete <:-}
If you look around on ebay, I picked up an 50-800 power 2 megapixel scope for 7.00 after I discovered that the scope was advertised as 5MP. Sometimes a guy has to bitch, false advertising gets me HOT!!
Warning: with any chinese product buyer beware and be extra cautious.
I also found the 45 and 60 power tiny lighted scopes with watch batteries really eat batteries fast and buying at the local stores is about 5$ each, NOT economical at all.
I have a few magnifying options now. I started with a 30x Jeweler's loupe. Decided I needed more magnification than that and got a 60x loupe like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Toch-Illuminat...eler%27s+loupe
Then I decided I wanted a higher powered scope and got a 200x pocket microscope with a cell phone camera adapter. Honestly, the 200x one is fun to play with and allows me to take pictures with my cell phone camera, but when I'm actually sharpening a razor and that is my only focus I default to the 60x loupe. You don't meed more magnification than that, in fact 200 is a bit too much in my opinion. And the small size means I can bring it with me to the honing table and put it right to the blade when I need a check rather than moving to an entire different station like you probably would with a microscope. Being able to upload a picture is nice, but not entirely necessary. I might go as far as to say you'll probably learn faster by looking and doing than by taking a picture, making a post, then waiting for further instructions. Especially now that more and more threads are popping up with photos of magnified blade edges and where to go from this point or that. If someone's already done the legwork, there's no reason not to save yourself some time/effort and benefit from it!
Thanks everybody for all your help it's greatly appreciated
Visual observation with the use of magnification is good. Google student microscopes. 100x mag works best IMHO with a good separate light source. It’s not complicated, the more you use it, the better you become. This is another good reason to attend your local meetings (scroll down to work bench area). http://straightrazorpalace.com/get-t...i-meet-28.html
Especially for new persons that are starting out. It takes about 5 mins to acquaint someone with what a Chosera 1K bevel set edge should look like. A proper 4K and 8K edge are easy to identify as well. It can get a little tricky from there and only patience and practice help. That’s the fun part, don’t deprive yourself. That’s the whole point of wet shaving.
Mike
I use a USB one from Amazon, a DB Power 20-300x. Works fine on my Mac. It has a low and high power really, and not a variable range. I fine the low good for most work on bevel setting, and blades with large bevels. The high is nice for looking closely at the edge, checking stria, or blades with a small bevel. It cost $80, and I've used it here a lot, posting progress on my work. I didn't have much luck with a cheap lighted loupe. I like viewing on the computer, even though it takes longer. I also organize by razor, and hone stage, so I can compare progress, as well.
