“Tree topping” as a measure of sharpness?

I am a newb with only a month in of straight shaving. Mystandard of sharp is whether or not my blade catches and lops off the ends (lastquarter inch) of my arm or leg hair. If it does not do this I work on it untilit does. I recently purchased twovintage razors from a man who shaves daily with a straight and honed them bothto his liking. They do not even come close to catching hair. I rehoned and thefirst one, but not the second. I have not tried shaving with it yet.
My question: Can a razor that won’t catch arm hair be sharpenough to provide a comfortable shave?

I'm not being flip here.
Try shaving with it and you will be closer to answering your own question. All tests need to be calibrated for the individual but all of those calibrations are in relation to the shave test.

Yeah That ^^^^^^^

As stated shave with it and you'll find out.

Everyone has their own sharpness tests. The principles are the same but the arm, leg and head hairs all differ from person to person.

This makes each of these tests useless until they are calibrated to your specific hair source.

What everyone else said ...... you're in luck in that you live in the same area a honemiester and mentor randydance062449 . Shoot him a PM and you can probably go over his place and he will show you stuff in a day it would take years to learn by your own efforts.

Welcome to SRP ........... :gl:

No, maybe, it depends…

Hair test are notoriously unreliable, for a variety of reasons, mostly your hair.

A better test is to look at the edge, to ensure that the bevels are meeting fully and then as said shave with it. Tree topping arm hair, may be a good start to testing an edge, but only if you know how your arm haircuts and at what degree of sharpness is required.

From the time the seller honed it until you tested it, many things could have happened to the edges.

What did you re-hone the first on, and what kind of razor is it. Pics are always useful.

Welcome to the forum, there is a wealth of information here and folks to answer your questions. Lots of good reading and information, in the first 3 post of the Honing forum.

In the end, no matter what or how many test you do, the shave is all that counts…

Test have some value if they mean something to you from experience. Sharpness is one variable that maybe quantified by a test. Smoothness and comfort is a whole other ball of wax. The only way is to shave with it and judge for yourself. So yeah what they said hehe.

Thanks for the replies. I have inferred that it is entirely possible to have a blade that won't even catch arm hair give a very acceptable shave. I will be finding out tomorrow morning.

When I finish honing a razor for someone else, I wipe it off, strop it, and shave test it. After the shave test it is lightly stropped again, disinfected in Barbicide, wiped dry, and then very lightly oiled. If I bothered to do it, the razor would pass the hanging hair after stropping it, but it sure would not pass it after it was oiled. Any bit of oil on the edge will block its ability to pop hairs.

Did you wipe or strop your razors before you tested them?

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Originally Posted by Brent375HH

Thanks for the replies. I have inferred that it is entirely possible to have a blade that won't even catch arm hair give a very acceptable shave. I will be finding out tomorrow morning.

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Not quite

This is dead accurate

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Originally Posted by Utopian

I'm not being flip here.
Try shaving with it and you will be closer to answering your own question. All tests need to be calibrated for the individual but all of those calibrations are in relation to the shave test.

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Basically there is no inference, it is a testing method only YOU can determine how it works in relation to how it shaves for YOU

Once you do the calibrations then you will be closer to knowing for sure, it is something we can't really "Tell" you since there are simply way to many variables involved :)

Just for instance, your edge honed on your finisher, might react differently to that edge honed on an unknown finisher, yet both may shave just fine, only you can decide what it all means to your tests

There are so many subtle things about shaving and honing that at the end of your first month you don't have your technique dialed in enough to really be in a spot to understand the scales of measure. Then there is the calibration of your test. You need to shave a perfectly good know shave ready edge and then experience the tests, and over time you understand how the test relates to the potential shave readiness of your blade. It is infinitely complicated and very very simple all at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

When I finish honing a razor for someone else, I wipe it off, strop it, and shave test it. After the shave test it is lightly stropped again, disinfected in Barbicide, wiped dry, and then very lightly oiled. If I bothered to do it, the razor would pass the hanging hair after stropping it, but it sure would not pass it after it was oiled. Any bit of oil on the edge will block its ability to pop hairs.

Did you wipe or strop your razors before you tested them?

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I just learned something. No, I did not wipe them off. I never knew or even thought that oil might have that effect. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Brent375HH

I am a newb with only a month in of straight shaving. Mystandard of sharp is whether or not my blade catches and lops off the ends (lastquarter inch) of my arm or leg hair. If it does not do this I work on it untilit does. I recently purchased twovintage razors from a man who shaves daily with a straight and honed them bothto his liking. They do not even come close to catching hair. I rehoned and thefirst one, but not the second. I have not tried shaving with it yet.
My question: Can a razor that won’t catch arm hair be sharpenough to provide a comfortable shave?

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I've lost count of how many times I've read a post from a reputable honer, or a custom razor maker, where a client has either tried tree-topping, hanging hair tests, or some other subjective test then contacted them to give them absolute h*** about their 'substandard honing job', and that the customer had to hone the blade themselves - only to find out that they didn't even try to shave with the blade and have no clue how it would've performed. And in almost every instance, it's almost guaranteed the honemeister/blade maker in question did a better job than the person second guessing their work.

Long story short, if you have somebody hone a blade for you, put it to work and see if it actually performs before second guessing them. You may very well find that his honing is superior to yours when you try out the blade you haven't messed with yet.

Granted I've yet to see a razor that shaves but can't catch hair, I have seen a razor catch and treetop hair that tugs and doesn't shave comfortably. So it would not surprise me to see the reverse, especially if the case is as Utopian suggested and the blades were oiled before being mailed out.

Hello from a fellow Twin Cities shaver :)

Thanks for posting your question. The guys here have given you some very good advice. Only a shave test will tell you what the results of your hair test means. With repetition you will build up/establish your calibrated test. BTW, there is no perfect test for all people except the shave test.

I will send you a PM with my contact details. Let me know what day/ time works for you and we can get together for a few hours. :)

The 'tree top" test is my final test before the REAL test which is the shave test. I've had more than a few that pass the TT test but failed the shave test and had to go back to the hones.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brent375HH

I am a newb with only a month in of straight shaving. Mystandard of sharp is whether or not my blade catches and lops off the ends (lastquarter inch) of my arm or leg hair. If it does not do this I work on it untilit does. I recently purchased twovintage razors from a man who shaves daily with a straight and honed them bothto his liking. They do not even come close to catching hair. I rehoned and thefirst one, but not the second. I have not tried shaving with it yet.
My question: Can a razor that won’t catch arm hair be sharpenough to provide a comfortable shave?

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All great points.

Im no honemeister but Ive been able to tree top arm hair off a 1k with a few razors, yes I could have shaved with it but It wouldnt be comfortable. This is a nice thread: http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...k-shave-2.html

Shave test is the way forward.

I think all hairs on people are different, while one may have hair that will tree top or pass the hanging hair test. The another persons hair may not pass either of them, My arm hair is very fine, so I use my leg hair ( Neither will pass tree top or HHT) BUT when I go to shave my leg hair a shave ready razor will cut my hair smooth to the skin, Then I shave my face with it, never had it fail me yet. I don't have a 12k just a 8k Norton for a finishing stone, I then put it on a linen strop with some crom ox then an few strops (20 or so) on the leather, if it starts singing on the leather I know its time to test it. Remember, each person will have different hair qualities.

No doubt all hair is different. When I was a pro tattoo artist in street shops (over 20 years) I had to shave the tattoo area on my customers and learned something about hair. It ain't all the same on one individual or the other, and it ain't all the same from one body area to another on each individual. We know that from shaving our face. Some areas are a breeze but get to the knob of the chin, or the neck under the jawline, and it is a different kettle of fish.

That said, when honing I used to shave arm hair, then leg hair, when I ran out of arm hair. Got tired of 'razor mange' so I depended on the TNT (thumb nail test) for bevel setting only, and the TPT (thumb pad test) in the earlier stages of the honing. Randy taught me early on to use the TPT in conjunction with the TNT while setting the bevel, so that I would develop the necessary feel for the TPT. (once the bevel is set no more TNT)

I started 'tree topping' and found it a good indicator (along with the aforementioned tests) and it didn't leave me with bare skin on arms or legs. After awhile I got to where I didn't need to actually cut the hair when tree topping. I could feel the edge catch the hair and knew it would cut if I carried it through. Finally, for me the test that most honemiesters hate ......... the HHT is my main final test.

I can't say I haven't gotten a good shave from a razor that wouldn't HHT, sometimes I have, but I can say that I've never gotten a bad shave from a razor that would do a good HHT. Speaking of a finished and stropped razor. I'm not one of those who does HHT at 1K, or shaves at that level either. Self flagellation is not my bag. :)

I got an earlier start than normal today with my new (to me) razor. I tried shaving with it as is. As I suspected, it pulled more than the razors I honed myself. I then ran maybe 20 laps on .5 micron diamond paste, wiped off the blade, 20 on cotton and 50 on leather. It then became as sharp, or possibly sharper, than either of the other two. It shaved quite well and lifted the arm hairs like my Friodur. It is an Emil Jansen (AKA no name) razor from Solingen. I was surprised at how far the paste took it so quickly. This is also my first carbon steel blade. It also has a very thin grind. So, the upshot is that for me, a razor that won't catch arm hair would be not fun to shave with. BTW I see a lot of youtube shave videos with guys who have goatees. That's cheating. If I still had my goatee, my shave would take 3 minutes.

Special thanks to Randy for giving me an invite to his personal honing training.

Randy's honing sessions are well worth the time, I'm usually there as well and I always learn something new and I've been to at least 20 sessions

It sounds like the razor was very close to shave ready, a CrOx pasted paddle is also a great thing to have in your arsenal of honing/maintenance tools and that's my goto when a razor is shaving the way you described

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Originally Posted by Brent375HH

Special thanks to Randy for giving me an invite to his personal honing training.

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