Kitchen Knives and Honing

I would really like to learn to sharpen my kitchen knives, but I haven't found much information about it. It seems that not many people hand sharpen their knives anymore. Instead, everyone recommends some type of gadget such as the EdgePro, EZE-Sharp, Lansky System, Spyderco Sharpmaker, or the Tormek Supergrind.

As best as I can tell, the only real purpose of these gadgets is to help the user maintain a consistant angle. That is a good idea, but I have two problems with these gadgets. First, with a few exceptions, they tend to be expensive, and second, you have to use their abrasives. In other words, I can't use my norton with them. I have to use whatever stone they've glued to their guide or otherwise provided. That doesn't go well with collecting stones from around the world.

Is there any good instruction or information about hand sharpening with stones, or should I take this as I sign that hand sharpening just isn't a good idea unless you're sharpening a straight?

I hand sharpen my kitchen knives all the time and it's so easy I can hardly describe it to you.

I have a cheap Chinatown combination hone that didn't even have the grits listed. I imagine they're around 300 and 600 grit, but pretty slow cutters from what I can tell.

I have a Kiwi stainless steel 8" chef's knife and a Victorianox cleaver. I'd like a 21cm or 24 cm Tojiro Gyuto, but I'm waiting for a deal on one.

I simply draw the blade from heel to tip down the hone at about a 20º angle applying steady pressure. There is something out there describing the difference in optimal blade angles, but I've been doing it for twenty years so I just go by feel.

X

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Originally Posted by xman

I hand sharpen my kitchen knives all the time and it's so easy I can hardly describe it to you.

I have a cheap Chinatown combination hone that didn't even have the grits listed. I imagine they're around 300 and 600 grit, but pretty slow cutters from what I can tell.

I have a Kiwi stainless steel 8" chef's knife and a Victorianox cleaver. I'd like a 21cm or 24 cm Tojiro Gyuto, but I'm waiting for a deal on one.

I simply draw the blade from heel to tip down the hone at about a 20º angle applying steady pressure. There is something out there describing the difference in optimal blade angles, but I've been doing it for twenty years so I just go by feel.

X

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Same here, but I use a 250/1000 Japanese combination stone. Generally I only use the 1000 grit side and then finish on a 6000 grit Japanese stone

Hand sharpening is a great skill to know. When you leave the sharpening to a pro or a gadget you are "De-skilling" yourself. Yes this is just my opinion. But knowing that you can free hand that knife makes you more usefull in the long run.

I abuse my knives on a daily basis. I am also into japanese steel, much harder steels that can be sharpened to a much finer edge. Depending on your steel type you will need to sharpen accordingly.

I use a hand full of stones in my sharpening ritual...

King 1200, basic edge rebuilding when needed.
King 6k, final polish on my heavier knives and chopper type cleavers.
Norton 4k/8/k combi stone, Primary touch up on all my blades.

I also have a couple DMT diamond plates, a D8XX 120micron, D8C 320 micron. These are used for reprofiling a blade or fixing a major chip or borken tip. Also make great stone flateners :D .

Depending on what your knives are made of and what your use is will dictate your need to sharpen.

There are a couple of guides that can be purchased separately to allow you to use your collection of hones, but still assist in consistent angle.

• Razor Edge Systems
• DMT

Something to maintain a constant angle can be helpful when your reprofiling a blade as it is harder to maintain a constant angle when more pressure is used.
I usually stick to diamond hones for lower grits then waterstones for higher. Sometimes I stop after using a binsu but if I expect to use a knife for slicing I will continue to an aoto and sometimes a suita.

Just keep trying freehand, with cheaper knives to start with, until you get used to the feel and noise. Sometimes you can feel the bevel hitting the stone as you reach the correct angle to maintain the current grind.
Folding paper or using a protractor can give you an idea of angles and a steeper micro bevel on edge of the blade makes sharpening a lot quicker.

Try rocking a blade back and forth to see if you can see or feel the bevel touching the stone so you get used to the feel and look. Try to do this in bright light.

You can always buy a guide system and work out a way to attach your own stones.

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Originally Posted by xChris

There are a couple of guides that can be purchased separately to allow you to use your collection of hones, but still assist in consistent angle.

• Razor Edge Systems
• DMT

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Those are very interesting. Does anyone have any experience with them? Do they work well?

I think that I have to agree with Dwarven's point that using gadgets does "de-skill yourself", and hand sharpening is a skill I'd like to acquire. Would you say that, with practice, it is possible to maintain a consistant enough angle by hand to put a super-fine edge on a knife? How sharp do you think is possible?

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Originally Posted by murph

... Just keep trying freehand, with cheaper knives to start with, until you get used to the feel and noise. Sometimes you can feel the bevel hitting the stone as you reach the correct angle to maintain the current grind.
Folding paper or using a protractor can give you an idea of angles and a steeper micro bevel on edge of the blade makes sharpening a lot quicker.

Try rocking a blade back and forth to see if you can see or feel the bevel touching the stone so you get used to the feel and look. Try to do this in bright light...

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Thats really helpful advice. One thing that lost me was the "steeper micro bevel". Can you explain that a little further?

Free hand sharpening at best will vary +/- a degree or 2. It comes down to how sharp is sharp. For my needs free hand sharpening is plenty and I'm alway learning better ways to do things. However som folks like that crisp line of the bevel when it's all polished up. That would probably be best done on the tool till you really have free hand down. I'm not that good yet :rant: but lucky for me I'm not one for purfect show pieces.

The steeper micro bevel saves you sharpening the whole bevel every time you sharpen. I think it would be easier if I find a link for you with a picture as explaining it might not be clear (it's like the bevel you sharpen on a razor while the rest of the blade is usually bevelled as well but at a lower angle)

A quick search turned this up with diagrams at the bottom of the page
http://www.tichbourneknives.com/technical.htm

I have become obsessed with sharpening in the last 2 years. I do freehand all of my knives once a consistant bevel has been created. My preference of stone is a Norton type double sided stone with 200 on one side and 800 on the other. I bought it for $8.00 at a mall kitchen outlet store. What I love about it is that it is 10"x4"x2"! Once I have created my primary bevel, I take it to a fine diamond bench hone or for that gleaming edge, I have a translucent arkansas.
Some advice for a newbie would be to log on to John Juranich's web site (google it), and order his book for $20.00. It has the simplest, yet most fundamentally sound instructions in my opinion. He walks you through every aspect of edge geometry using illustrations and terms men can understatnd. He is also really good at what he does.
I have purchased his Razor's Edge Guide, and it was a wonderful tool for training my eyes and hands what a proper sharpening motion should be.

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Originally Posted by 4Shore

I have become obsessed with sharpening in the last 2 years. I do freehand all of my knives once a consistant bevel has been created. My preference of stone is a Norton type double sided stone with 200 on one side and 800 on the other. I bought it for $8.00 at a mall kitchen outlet store. What I love about it is that it is 10"x4"x2"! Once I have created my primary bevel, I take it to a fine diamond bench hone or for that gleaming edge, I have a translucent arkansas.
Some advice for a newbie would be to log on to John Juranich's web site (google it), and order his book for $20.00. It has the simplest, yet most fundamentally sound instructions in my opinion. He walks you through every aspect of edge geometry using illustrations and terms men can understatnd. He is also really good at what he does.
I have purchased his Razor's Edge Guide, and it was a wonderful tool for training my eyes and hands what a proper sharpening motion should be.

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Thanks for the info. That is exactly what I was looking for... a source for instruction. I looked up John Juranitch, and found what appears to be his website at: www.razoredgesystems.com

On Amazon I looked up his book, The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening, and found recommendations for another book: The Complete Guide to Sharpening by Leonard Lee. After reading several reviews of each, I think I'll get both. :D

I hand sharpen my kitchen knives.

If i were to buy an aid, it would be Ben Dale's Edge Pro. http://www.edgeproinc.com/

I suggest that if you have single grit stones, you mark one side for knives and one for razors. The knife side will need lapped more often.

I hand sharpen mine as well. I usually do it on a belgian blue. They're not very expensive and the result is GREAT.

I'm with ernestrome, the edgepro seems like the best midpriced aid. I have had the best results with a 1"x30" beltsander with many grits of sandpaper. I began with pieces of 1/8" flat stock until I could run consistant bevels along 10" long pieces. Then I used 8" round pieces. The most difficult thing with power sharpening is consistency of an edge. I have tried the slow moving round wetstones and have always had problems with them grabbing the blade, creating more work than when I started. With a belt, you just make sure your draw along the belt is continuous from heel to tip.
The paper wheels work very well, but take tremendous concentration and a lot of practice for the results most want.
No matter what you use, safety can not be overstressed! Even sharpening by hand can bring many stiches, power tools can lead to body parts in ice chests with doctors saying, "I'll do the best I can, but I can't promise anything."

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Originally Posted by 4Shore

No matter what you use, safety can not be overstressed! Even sharpening by hand can bring many stiches, power tools can lead to body parts in ice chests with doctors saying, "I'll do the best I can, but I can't promise anything."

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:roflmao

Now that is the truth! Good advise.

So I take it you're a blade smith as well? That is something I'd love to venture into eventually. You know, once I can reliably sharpen a knife...

Like we tell our kids, "Education is the first step you must take in learning."
Read the books, follow the procedures. Work slowly. I think everyone will agree that using faster or stronger strokes has never ever produced a better edge than slower, more controlled motions.

Juranich's book is old. Back then, diamond hones were very course and expensive. He says don't use them. There have been several advancements since he wrote the book. Diamond hones are now very cheap and work very well for fast stock removal. Don't worry, his technique is the gold standard for sharpening tools and equipment.

Leonard Lee teaches how to sharpen certain tools that Juranich doesn't, woodworking tools. He is the gold standard in that area.

Just remember to take your time. I sliced my palm more than once holding a stone in one hand and a tool in the other, (chisels more than once).
Liquid bandage may not stop the bleeding, but it makes a great skin prep for butterfly sutures!:w

I've been hand sharpening my knives since the early seventies. I always told customers that the important thing was not that you exactly duplicated factory angles, but that you were consistent in your angles. My kitchen knives rarely see a fine oval diamond 'steel', and usually just see the large Chicago Cutlery steel followed by the very large ceramic rod. I wouldn't shave with my knives after that, but they're plenty good for the kitchen.


Wayne, who has forge welded his own blade

As you guys are honing kitchen Knives, I am wanting to hone up my grandpa's swiss army knife he promised me after he passed away. I have his stones he used for them, which I will take pics of later (don't know if they are oil or not). Just was wondering the angle I should use for it? I have been told 22.5 as it is half of 45 for a good guesstimation.

22.5 is an easy enough angle if you fold a piece of paper twice or you could use a couple of coins. In general you use an acute for kitchen knives and a more obtuse one for outdoor use but it's also a matter of personal preference. 20 to 25 should be fine for a pen/pocket knife.

Free hand sharpening is never a set degree anyway. It varies +/- a degree or so as it is very hard to keep all the body machanics the same with each stroke.

For a pocket knife edge I tend to go for a tough edge, so 25 would be fine but I wouln't go any lower. It is after all a personal prefference as to what you want that edge to do.

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Originally Posted by DwarvenChef

Free hand sharpening is never a set degree anyway. It varies +/- a degree or so as it is very hard to keep all the body machanics the same with each stroke.

For a pocket knife edge I tend to go for a tough edge, so 25 would be fine but I wouln't go any lower. It is after all a personal prefference as to what you want that edge to do.

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Very true. I think I would want a rough edge as well. It is a Swiss army knife, and is used for general purposes.

Fellas,

when you're using a honing guide like the Edge Pro, does it slide up and down the spine so you can do the X-pattern? I don't have a honing guide but am thinking of getting one. I'm picturing my 12" butcher knife on a 3" Arkansas hone; am I going to do just three-inch sections of the knife at a time?

Many guides are along the lines of the Apex now and hold the knife steady while you move the stone.
If you mean the guides that clip onto the back of the knife I don't think so I think you have to move it but you often hold the knife at an angle to the stone so larger areas would be done at a time if you wanted.
Not that you normally do more than a couple of inches at a time max freehand anyway as you press one area of the blade at a time, in general.

With kitchen sized knives on the edge pro (I don't have one, this is from others info) you will have to do the blades in sections. A 12" edge would do better if you only work on 4 to 5 inches at a time. That way the fix'd angles of the edge pro are lined up properly. If you move out to far from side to side the angles can get fuzzy on ya.

Thanks guys.