Thank you Onimaru55,
I have razors with smiles and frowns, and most all of them the spine edge is worn and match the cutting edge. I went through the section you suggested and the sharpening manners. None match my approach which may be my problem. I do have 7 to 8 decent to good razors, it's just some of the new ones I have bought. I have gone back to the Norton water stones to see if it may help as they are a wider stone than my Arkansas.