Chef Knives To Go. Cheapest 400/1000 that I've seen on the market.
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My kit arrived today. Let the fun begin[emoji1]
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Have fun...watch some videos if you haven't!
Utopian is correct. wetndri grit rating is also different to waterstone. 1k paper is more like 600grit compared to a 1k waterstone.
Kings are old fashioned clay based watestones & need thorough soaking. Cam even be left in a bucket of water.
Don't know about cntg plates but Atoma have an advantage in that they are consistently flat & the abrasive strip can be replaced.
If you buy an Atoma be sure to seal the edges to prevent ingress of water which can cause rust buildup under the plate causing a mysterious convexity over time :)
Just realized I need a stone holder >.<
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Anything that is waterproof & will stick to metal. I like maxi-bond as you can cut the tube & dispense a thin bead.
Being a lazy bugga, I havent sealed my recent replacements from 2013.
The base is aluminium. The diamonds are bonded to a thin steel plate which is secured to the base by 3 strips of double sided tape.
I couldn't find any stone specifically from Chef Knives to Go on Amazon. Would any 400 or coarser stone work?
Can't break the bank with a DMT or other $100+ lapping diamond plate right now. [emoji45]
Looking for it on Amazon because I'll need to use their Amazon Locker service...
And a DMT 325 isn't 100$. Or is the Atoma that much. I got a Atoma 400 for less than 55$ if I remember right, that was only a month or so. Tc
You're right. I had just saw the DMT's on Sharpening Supplies, and the three available model are $189.99 (10" 120 and 95 micron) and $134.99 (8" 95 micron).
On Amazon, the DMT D8C (8" 45 micron / 325 mesh, I guess this is the DMC 325, right?) costs $54.87 and the Atoma 400 $69.00.
Still I think I'll take a look at lapping with sandpaper as Jay123 suggested... between the stones and a few shaving items my shopping list is growing quite fast.
It would be great if we could start with a few razors and a STARTING KIT to learn honing. To learn what we know isn't rocket science, but, it is still no walk in the park either. My thoughts always go back to having one razor honed by a professional, so you know what a sharp razor feels like, looks like and shaves like. To grab 3 or 4 stones and a few antique store razors, which will more than likely need a bit of work, tough enough for experienced blokes let alone to learn on. So, have that one razor done right, buy a mid range finishing hone like a Naniwa 8k, and learn first how to maintain an already perfect edge. To just pick up a 1k, and 'set a bevel' often for beginners means a hell of a lot of the spines of razors washed down the sink with bits of the hone. When you get the hang of it, and it will take more than a few weeks, then look at defining your honing equipment. The 8k hone will still be a great hone after you've got things going, but at least you will have your stroke right, an understanding of the edges, using magnification, (cheap loupes). And get great shaves off the pro honed razor, if you ruin it's edge in touching up, then you'll have a horror of a time with a razor that's dull As far as lapping goes, wetdry will be fine for a single stone. Mostly flat is OK.
Sage advice. I have identified two of my antique store razors that I want to get professionally honed. I have cleaned and polished them and don't want to ruin them. So, yes, I will send these to be honed by someone who knows what they are doing.
The first is a Geo Wostenholm and Son:
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The second is a Wade and Butcher:
Attachment 239364
These are beautiful razors. Works of art in my humble opinion. I will learn how to shave with these and will learn to maintain the professionally honed edges. In due time...I have a couple of razors that are in good condition that I will use to learn to set the bevel and hone. I am very patient and like to learn how to do something right the first time and in the right manner. No rush...as they say, good things come to those that wait...or something like that.
So... since I don't have a delivery address in the US, and I'll only have less than a week to have the hones delivered, I'll have to make do with what I can get from Amazon and delivered to one of their lockers.
A friend of mine gave me an old Naniwa Deluxe 1K. I'll also buy a Norton 4K/8K from Amazon.
Unfortunately, I could not find a Naniwa 12K sold or fulfilled by Amazon, so I'll have to find a replacement.
Amazon has two Shapton 12K hones: the M5 ($47.88) and the Kuromaku ($60.78).
From reading other threads here, I believe that the Kuromaku is just the Japanese version of the Pro, while the M5 is a thinner, 5mm version of the Pro.
The thing is, the top review on Amazon says that the M5 isn't 12K at all, maybe a 6K, and that it isn't suitable for finishing a razor.
My questions are:
- Would these hones work as a replacement for the Naniwa 12K?
- Should I get the Kuromaku or the M5?
- Is the M5 truly a 12K?
Thanks!
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I started with a Norton 1/4/8k ($138) and a DMT 325 Diasharp ($47). Later I got a Naniwa 12k then 2k and holders. None of those necessary, but we're very helpful.
Being a beginner, I got a cheap USB microscope, so I could check the edge closely and learn about how I was doing (by sharing the photos here).
The problem of being a beginner living in Brazil is that I have to take every opportunity I encounter for getting equipment from the US. This time, a relative will be in NYC for a week, so I'm trying to learn and buy what I can with restricted time and budget. It'll probably be a year or more before I get a new opportunity.
Ideally I could just start with the Norton 4K/8K and in 6 months get a 1K and a finishing stone.
Until yesterday I was set in getting just the Norton 4K/8K, because I wasn't able to find the Naniwa 12K in the condition I needed (i.e. either delivered by Amazon to one of its lockers or sold by a store/person in NJ or NYC).
Today I found the Japanese Shapton 12K, which to my understanding should be equivalent to the American Shapton 15K, grit wise.
I guess the real question is whether the Japanese Shapton (Kuromaku) 12K would be an improvement to finishing the edge over the Norton 8K.
I thank you all in advance for your inputs and opinions!
IF I remember correctly, the Japanese grit ratings are actually finer than American ones. That is to say a Japanese 8K is finer than an American 8K. So in theory a shapton 12K (should be Japanese grit rating) would be an improvement to the Norton 8K. Might want to send Onimaru a PM regarding those hones, IIRC he uses the Shapton series so he should be able to give you proper guidance regarding their system.
Whizbang, if you start out maintaining your professionally honed razors it will help you learn to hone.
The general consensus was a 1k, 4/8k and a strop should be sufficient to get a razor shave ready. But if...if I wanted some kind of finishing stone what would that one finishing stone look like 10k, 20k, 30k?
The 8 k is a finisher if you learn it. Until you can get the most out of the 8 you won't really be ready for the higher grit hones, stay with the basics and learn your hones before chasing an edge that may or may not be that much better, and to be honest until you really become experienced at Shaving and Stropping, you won't notice any difference any way. Good luck. Tc
I've written this so many times and 'IF' the forum's program wouldn't mess with my Microsoft Word I'd just copy and paste time after time what I would like to tell you.
IF YOU CAN'T GET A Clean-Close and Comfortable (CCC) SHAVE OFF OF A 8K HONE. THEN BUYING HIGHER GRIT HONES IS LIKE POURING MONEY DOWN A RAT HOLE!!!
I have a Naniwa 12K and a Zulu Grey and a Gyuangxi and after a lot of testing, I can get a 'SLIGHTLY' smoother shave off of them than my Norton 8K. (Not using a pasted strop).
With that said, 'IF' I were to drop and break the Naniwa, Zulu, or Gyuangxi hones, I could live off of my Norton 8K edge (with no pasted strops) for the rest of my life!
However, 'IF' I were to drop and break my Norton 4/8K I'd eat peanut butter sandwiches day in and day out until I could save up to buy a new one.
YES! I DO FEEL THAT STRONGLY ABOUT GETTING A (CCC) SHAVE OFF OF AN 8K HONE.
There is no 'Magic' in higher grit stones! Learn to get the most out of an 8k and then 'think' about higher grit hones.
So now I have a Norton 4K/8k and a Shapton 12K(15k) on my way, with two shave-ready razors for practicing and also a Dovo Bismarck that should have been shave-ready, but in reality tugged a lot.
I thought I could use the 8K side on the Norton and the Shapton 12K to fix its edge, and just the Shapton 12K to refresh the two shave-ready razors.
So you're saying that, at least for now, I sound refresh their edge just on the 8K?
What about the Dovo, should I go first to the 4K? Or to the King Deluxe 1K? (After learning with the practice razors, of course).
Oh, speaking of the King hone , will it be detrimental to the razors mixing three brands like that?
How would you go about honing with these stones?
Re the Dovo...
With the assumption that the edge is not really bad, I would use the highest grit stone you have and see if the edge can be refreshed satisfactory. If not, drop down to the next grit and try that. So, if you have the 12/15K try that. If not, try the 8K.
You should not have to go to the 1K, which is more for setting the bevel.
Of course, you could take that approach and go to the 1K, and then work your way up, but you probably don't need to re-set the bevel, and you may end up taking off more steel than you need to.
So it is a judgement call on your part... do you try to take as little steel off as possible and use highest grit dropping down, as needed, or do you start from scratch and set the bevel with the 1K and work your way up. Something people decide on, based on the edge.
Regards,
I meant to ask if I should do anything different from what I've seen on Lynn's (and others) videos, because mostly the instructions are using matching hones from the same brand, or a Naniwa & Norton combo.
The hones I got (King Deluxe 1K, Norton 4K/8K and Shapton 12K[15K]) are a somewhat weird or uncommon combination, I believe.
Just wondering though.
Everyone wants the minimal kit for honing. The sad truth of the matter is it is a rabbit hole we fall down. I started with the 3/8 naniwa SS. then added the 1Knaniwa SS. Oh what the hell i added the 12K naniwa SS. The a friend showed me the Suehiro 20K. Guess what . you got it I now have a 20K. Now I'm not saying this is bad. Just don't be miss led. There will always be that just one more. BUT IT IS FUN.
Well, each hone only matters up until you're finished with it. With each progressive stone you should be wearing away the stria from the previous one, and further refining the edge. Once you're done with you Norton 4k, anything done by your 1K should be erased. Same for your 8K, and your 12K. So it shouldn't matter if you start with King, shift to Norton, then bounce over to Shapton, when you're done you should have a Shapton 12K edge assuming you did your part correctly.
Geez Broy why don't you just say what's on your mind instead of beating around the bush! Just kidding my friend. Tc
I am not sure that everyone wants the minimal kit for honing. Five stone progressions reaching the 20K + levels seem to be widely advocated here.
One can also crawl out of the rabbit hole. It's the bandwagon effect that tends to push people in, myself included.
I now just use a coticule for most of my honing needs. If heavier restoration is needed, my chosera 1k. If a little extra is needed, some paste.
That's a maximum total of 3 different abrasives.
Granted I have more than one coticule, but that's just for posterity's sake. Zeus forbid that coticules reach the same fanboydom and astronomical prices as Eschers should my sons wish to partake in this hobby in the future.
Well, actually most of what I've seen is folks recommending either a Norton 4/8 or a Naniwa 3/8. And really that's all you need unless you get into vintage restores. And if you really want to be minimalist, send it off to Lynn or Glenn, then order a Norton/Naniwa/Shapton 8K to keep it inline thereafter.
I think the folks recommending 5 stone + systems are missing the cut of this thread's gib. Will most end up with a Naniwa 10/12, Shapton 12/16/30, GS 20, or Zulu/Thuri/PHIG/Coti/W. Slate/Arkanstone? Probably. Curiosity gets us all at some point.
Are they needed? No. I can scratch a few of those naturals off the list. However right now I'm shaving exclusively with a razor Honed on the Norton 8k, stropped with linen then leather. No pastes, no other finisher, 1 pass CCC shaves and the edge is getting mellower (read: more comfortable) every shave.