Honing vintage razors

I have several antique store vintage razors that I will be restoring over the coming weeks. I was careful in making my purchases. I checked scales, pivot, edge (no rust, nicks or serrations or heavy scaling), general condition of metal etc. and only purchased SRs that I thought are in good condition and could be easily restored. None of the razors, when placed on a flat surface "tap and wobble".

I am now going through the process of cleaning them, one at a time. Beginning with a good bath in rubbing alcohol, and cleaning with steel wool, WD40, Q-Tips, pipe cleaners, and then if necessary, moving up to 800, 1000, 2000 sandpaper. Once cleaned up, I want to hone these SRs myself. I am starting from scratch…ie. I am a honing newb. But I feel there is no better way to learn than starting at the ground floor. I have honed knives before, so I am generally familiar with the honing process.

I have several questions about honing vintage antique store SRs. Most of the vintage SRs have blades that are in good condition. Indeed, I have tested many and they still hold an edge good enough to shave arm hair. But I want to put on a fresh edge and begin using them for daily shaves.

Thanks to the advice I received from another post I started on SRP regarding a beginners honing kit, I will be using 1/3/8K waterstones, and a strop. I am assuming I don’t need to re-bevel these SRs as they have already been used and the edges are in relatively good condition. Correct me if I am wrong.

What advice can you share with me regarding the honing process for a vintage razor? Most of the articles and Youtube videos shows honing for newer models razors…I can’t seem to find any specifically for vintage razors. And maybe there is no difference. I am wondering if there are any special approaches, precautions I should be mindful of as I put the metal to stone? For example, how many passes for a blade on each of the 1/3/8 stones should I do for a blade that is already somewhat sharp?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

My process is simple and works for me. I put one layer of electrical tape on spine to protect from excessive wear. On a wedge i may use 2-3 layers. I set the bevel on a 300-400-600 diamond hone. Check with loop to make sure it is even and full length of edge. Then go to a 6k water stone until edge looks shinny with no visible scratches. Now to a 12k oil stone about 100 passes. Then glass plate about 50 passes. Finish on canvas with paste then leather until edge is polished. My wife has very fine hair. If it cuts hers on the HHT I am ready to shave.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whizbang

I am assuming I don’t need to re-bevel these SRs as they have already been used and the edges are in relatively good condition. Correct me if I am wrong.

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Unfortunately, yes, you are wrong.

Most antique store finds, especially ones that you have done restoration work on with sandpaper, will need to have bevels restored as well. It is rare to find a vintage razor in the wild that does not need to have steel removed from the bevels to create a new edge.

If you are new to honing, make sure to use tape on the spine, as beginning honers tend to put way too much pressure on the spine and unnecessarily wear away a lot steel from the spine.

If you have watched honing videos, the only differences between honing a new and vintage razor are the following.

1. There probably will be a lot more work required to set the bevels on a vintage razor.

2. You are more likely to find issues that will make the vintage razor more difficult to hone, potentially requiring some honing gymnastics in order to get a good edge. This is because you often are dealing with uneven wear on the spine and/or edge. An example of this is the very commonly found frown in the edge that has to be removed even before you begin to set the bevels.

Keep thinking and now start practicing.

The bevel is the foundation for the edge. If it is less than perfect so will the edge be. In order to get there you will need a good loupe. The good news is compared to many other things in this hobby, they are really inexpensive. There is a thread with really good honing pictures that is here http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...ggestions.html In general the easiest way to learn to hone is to sit down with someone that hones, or go to a meet. It is amazing how much better my edges got after my first meet.

The only thing I'll add is that I can hone a straight razor good enough that I can comfortably shave with it. OTH I can't sharpen a knife to save my soul. So I would not put too much stock in knowing how to sharpen a knife well helping with honing a straight razor. The two are different animules even though they are related. I'd approach it with an open mind and a clean slate.

Bob

Whizbang - it would be hard to say how good these responses have been. Each is superb.

On bevels, I used to think the honorable sixgunner was being a bit immodest when asked how to tell if the bevel is properly set. He answered, roughly - if I set it. Its critical enough (he also says bevel, bevel, bevel) that it makes no sense to give your self heartburn from the uncertainty. I presume your last strokes on a bevel are the uber-light finishing stroke and they still show uniform edge contact (magic marker test if you're unsure). Needless to say, I don't think 'gunner's response was unreasonable at all. Anymore, w/ a new or uncertain blade, I don't even think about the higher stones much. Bevel is all I think about. The rest fall in line if I've done this adequately.

So, first, be very careful with Alcohol, some celluloid scales can kick off with cell rot with the use of harsh chemicals.

I have never had a problem with WD40 or Simple Green for cleaning. I generally hose the razor down with WD40, let it sit a few minutes to soak in then clean with steel wool. I would not use alcohol, except possibly on a towel to wipe just the blade.

What I did not see on your list is the most important tool, magnification. Get at least a 60x lighted loupe, they are only a few dollars and will tell you volumes about your razors and what they need. You can't fix, what you can’t see. A 60-100x micro max will show you a lot about your razor for about $15.

A Vintage razor, will tell you a lot more than a new razor, because in maintaining the razor the prior user(s) have cause wear patterns, that will tip you to issues that can turn into problems.

You want to do this inspection before you do any restoration with abrasives or polish, or you will just erase all tells on the razor and now you are starting all over, blind.

Laying the blade on a flat surface, looking for warp is a good start, but still does not mean it is not warped. Look at the spine with magnification, inspect the wear pattern from heel to toe on both sides. Most razors have some warp and it is not a deal breaker, if you know how to deal with it.

Is the spine wear pattern even, if not, why?

Look at the width of the blade is it even, if not why?
Look at the edge, does the edge run from heel to toe? Are there any chips or cracks?

Look at the heel, is the heel rounded, is the heel fully honed, does the edge end before the stabilizer, if it has one. The edge should end at the corner where the heel begins the upturn or just a bit past the round, but that corner need to be well in front of the stabilizer.

If not the heel, will need correcting and re-shaping.


Is there wear (Hone Marks) on the stabilizer, where they are keeping the heel off the stone?

If so the stabilizers may need re-shaping.

Now look at the tip, is it honed all the way to the tip, if a spike or just a bit past the round corner, if a round point? If a spike has it been muted, if so how severe? Decide if you want to restore the tip, which will require grinding the top edge to form a point at the corner.

Is there rust at the pivot?

Now inspect the scales for tightness and cracks, cleaning may reveal some hidden flaws.

If you have use any abrasives on the blade and touched the edge, the edge will need to be refreshed. How you do that depends on how flat the bevels are from heel to toe and from the back of the bevel to the edge, and if they are in the correct bevel angle.

Here is a simple test. Ink the bevel fully with a colored sharpie, WD40 on a paper towel, will easily remove sharpie ink so use it liberally. Colored ink is much easier to see with the naked eye and magnification.

Do one lap on your highest grit stone, yes it will come off the stone with wear…

Look at the bevel, how much of the ink came off and where? Why? See if you can tell if the remaining ink is there because of the bevel, (not flat or in the correct plane) or are there other issues that you can spot.

Make a reference mark where the ink remains on the belly of the razor, a dot or a tick. Now do, another lap, did you remove more ink? If so, it is the angle or a non-flat bevel. If after a few laps ink still remains, you will have to alter your honing technique to reach the whole bevel.

If the bevels are mostly flat, you can probably re-set the bevels on a higher grit stone, an 8K or 4k and avoid the deep 1k stria. Just ink the bevels and make sure you are honing to the edge.

These are all the “Variables” we talk about in honing.

Here is an old entry from the SRP Library that worked well for me ;

Honing - Alternative approaches - Straight Razor Place Library

Somtimes I'm just boggled by the quality of the help. Bravo, gents.

Thanks everyone for the good advice. I take note of the use of alcohol on scales. Actually, I only swipe the blade to remove cooties. I use warm soapy water on scales...and Q-tips or folded paper towel. I understand Flitz is safe on most scales.

@Utopian and @RezDog Your emphasis on bevel is great. Yes, I hear you. Bevel is everything. Got it. :)

I have a loupe and I will scrutinize the blades carefully before I begin any type of honing work. @Euclid440 I can see how this will give valuable information as regards what needs to be done and when I will have arrived at my destination.

I am wondering about taping the spine. I appreciate the heavy hands of a newb on a blade. But I would rather make myself mindful of minimizing pressure rather than rely on taping every time. Will the sanding done in restoration really remove that much metal to distort the bevel? Most of what I have done so far has not relied heavily on sandpaper. I am hand sanding...not using machines...can't stand the noise. If I use tape will the tape then need to be used every time I hone? Just wondering...

I have identified a couple of my vintage SRs that I will use for my first attempts to learn the process of setting a bevel and honing. If they are ruined they will at least serve as a good teacher.

Thanks again...I very much appreciate your advice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

So, first, be very careful with Alcohol, some celluloid scales can kick off with cell rot with the use of harsh chemicals.

I have never had a problem with WD40 or Simple Green for cleaning. I generally hose the razor down with WD40, let it sit a few minutes to soak in then clean with steel wool. I would not use alcohol, except possibly on a towel to wipe just the blade.

What I did not see on your list is the most important tool, magnification. Get at least a 60x lighted loupe, they are only a few dollars and will tell you volumes about your razors and what they need. You can't fix, what you can’t see. A 60-100x micro max will show you a lot about your razor for about $15.

A Vintage razor, will tell you a lot more than a new razor, because in maintaining the razor the prior user(s) have cause wear patterns, that will tip you to issues that can turn into problems.

You want to do this inspection before you do any restoration with abrasives or polish, or you will just erase all tells on the razor and now you are starting all over, blind.

Laying the blade on a flat surface, looking for warp is a good start, but still does not mean it is not warped. Look at the spine with magnification, inspect the wear pattern from heel to toe on both sides. Most razors have some warp and it is not a deal breaker, if you know how to deal with it.

Is the spine wear pattern even, if not, why?

Look at the width of the blade is it even, if not why?
Look at the edge, does the edge run from heel to toe? Are there any chips or cracks?

Look at the heel, is the heel rounded, is the heel fully honed, does the edge end before the stabilizer, if it has one. The edge should end at the corner where the heel begins the upturn or just a bit past the round, but that corner need to be well in front of the stabilizer.

If not the heel, will need correcting and re-shaping.


Is there wear (Hone Marks) on the stabilizer, where they are keeping the heel off the stone?

If so the stabilizers may need re-shaping.

Now look at the tip, is it honed all the way to the tip, if a spike or just a bit past the round corner, if a round point? If a spike has it been muted, if so how severe? Decide if you want to restore the tip, which will require grinding the top edge to form a point at the corner.

Is there rust at the pivot?

Now inspect the scales for tightness and cracks, cleaning may reveal some hidden flaws.

If you have use any abrasives on the blade and touched the edge, the edge will need to be refreshed. How you do that depends on how flat the bevels are from heel to toe and from the back of the bevel to the edge, and if they are in the correct bevel angle.

Here is a simple test. Ink the bevel fully with a colored sharpie, WD40 on a paper towel, will easily remove sharpie ink so use it liberally. Colored ink is much easier to see with the naked eye and magnification.

Do one lap on your highest grit stone, yes it will come off the stone with wear…

Look at the bevel, how much of the ink came off and where? Why? See if you can tell if the remaining ink is there because of the bevel, (not flat or in the correct plane) or are there other issues that you can spot.

Make a reference mark where the ink remains on the belly of the razor, a dot or a tick. Now do, another lap, did you remove more ink? If so, it is the angle or a non-flat bevel. If after a few laps ink still remains, you will have to alter your honing technique to reach the whole bevel.

If the bevels are mostly flat, you can probably re-set the bevels on a higher grit stone, an 8K or 4k and avoid the deep 1k stria. Just ink the bevels and make sure you are honing to the edge.

These are all the “Variables” we talk about in honing.

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Thanks @Euclid440 This will serve as an excellent checklist.

They will all probably need a bevel reset, I've probably bought 300 antique store razors and I've only had 2 that didn't need a bevel reset. It can be deceiving as at least 100 of those cut arm hair straight from the store. looking at them through an eye loupe will tell the real story. Also check for frowns, they might be very slight but will make honing very frustrating until they are fixed.

I always use tape as I messed up a few spines when I was learning. If you really don't want to use tape, start with the worst of the bunch and pay close attention to the spine to monitor for excessive wear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rodb

They will all probably need a bevel reset, I've probably bought 300 antique store razors and I've only had 2 that didn't need a bevel reset. It can be deceiving as at least 100 of those cut arm hair straight from the store. looking at them through an eye loupe will tell the real story. Also check for frowns, they might be very slight but will make honing very frustrating until they are fixed.

I always use tape as I messed up a few spines when I was learning. If you really don't want to use tape, start with the worst of the bunch and pay close attention to the spine to monitor for excessive wear.

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Thanks @rodb I have been thinking about this issue of tape based on posts above from others...and until I get proficient at honing I may be wise to just tape as a matter of regular practice. It will just help to control one more variable. If I use it consistently this should help.

:)


Might want to read here

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...-you-leap.html

Many, MANY words have been written here on the great tape vs no-tape debate. :) You can use it or not - totally your choice as both work.

*But* I will say that if you do decide to use tape, it's worth spending a couple of bucks to get good stuff. There is a fairly widespread consensus that 3M (or Scotch brand) #700 is as good as any other option. It will last far longer than the cheap dollar store stuff, and thereby leave less gunk on your stones.

Good luck!
:tu