not quite passing hht

i am just starting out with straights and i picked up a razor that needs what looks like a light honing. its a 5/8 otto deutsch hans (pretty cool little razor) i have honed out a very small nick on my strop back hone from tilly and it passes the thumbnail test. i have done a couple hundred laps on the gem hone and i still cant pass the hht. i lapped the frictionite hone which feels courser than the gem. 50 laps on it and still not passing the hanging hair test. it feels like it is atleast close when i do the thumbpad test. i dont have any other hones or pasted strops yet. should i test it out on my face tonight to get a better understanding of where i am at? i dont think its over honed but then again i am just starting out with this. i do have a razor that is shave sharp so i should have a good benchmark to work with.

any suggestions are greatly appreciated-cheers,
ryan

Sure, give it a test. Sometimes razors that shave great won't pass the hair test -- the real test is the shave after all, these other tests are just more convenient. Don't try to push it though if it isn't sharp enough, switch to another razor to finish the shave.

Great advice. I had several that passed the hht, but not quite good enough to shave. A few more laps on the Norton and a strop and they would pass the hht and give a good shave. Close is not good enough but is is good enough to tell you you are close. Keep a good razor at hand and switch if you don't get it just right.

thanks guys. i have one razor that is shaving already that i can switch to. i havent stropped it yet and that might help it out also. i just cant hardly wait until i get a razor to pop a hanging hair. i imagine that is a magical moment.
i have heard that it is possible to pass a hht on these barber hones, i hope i can get there without furthur purchases.

cheers,
ryan

Sometimes a little strop can make the difference between a blade being able to pass the hht. It depends on the razor, hone, hair thickness and sharpness.

well-after stropping it shaves but not very smoothly.:rant:
i will try more laps on the gem hone and see where that takes me. those coticules are so darn expensive! would a 5"x1.5" be too small. i might have to break down and get one. i am now wondering if this combination would work:

1000 grit wet/dry for getting large nicks out
yellow coticule w/slurry
yellow w/o slurry for polishing
stropping

ideally to start with i dont want to have to spend the money on a blue and a yellow coticule, a dmt and a norton 4k/8k.

cheers,
ryan

Ryan,

The progression you suggested would work very well, especially supplemented by the barber hones you already have. It will take a little longer than the other hones, though.

A 5"x1.5" coticule would be large enough--again, it'll just take a little longer.

The Norton is a great way to go if you only want to get one hone. I prefer the Belgians, but my Norton has served me well. :)

Last night I also tried getting a razor to pass the HHT with the Gem, and I wasn't able to. It would cut hairs but not smoothly. I think I have managed this in the past, but maybe it was a fluke... :shrug: You might try a few laps on the Frictionite to refine the edge.

Good luck,
Josh

thanks josh-
i will try more laps on the frictionite tonight. that stone feels more course than the gem. i am glad to hear that you had the same out come from the gem alone- cuts hair but not quite shave worthy. i will be saving my money for a yellow coticule and a rubbing stone!

cheers,
ryan
ps that royal is serving well! thanks!

Size doesn't really matter, except for convenience.
I just sold a 5x1.25 coticule to heliguy, and I used it to finish one of his razors, simply to prove that it is OK.

a 5x1 or even a 4x1 will do the job just fine. Of course, the fact that they are smaller mean that you'd have to do more laps, but other than that it works fine.

I'd even argue that the smaller size is more versatile. Narrow hones work great with razors that have a smile or slight warp to the blade. I have two sizes, a 2" wide coticule and a 1.5" wide one that gets used on problem children...

Josh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshEarl

Narrow hones work great with razors that have a smile or slight warp to the blade.

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I've heard this claim many times and never understood why width matters. Just because you've got 3" doesn't mean you've got to use it. I've honed smiling blades on 3" wide hones and on 0.5" wide hones and it never seemed to matter. My smiling blades get honed on a half-inch wide strip down the hone and the extra width never comes into play at all.

I'd say it's more of an issue for slightly warped blades than for smiles.

Nice, even smiles are easier for me than the blades where the toe and heel have a more abrupt curve. But I've always had a hard time getting the rock 'n' roll honing stroke just right. A narrow hone that I can hold in my hand and tilt as necessary makes it easier for me to keep the pressure even. :shrug:

You can use just the edge of the hone, and I've had some success doing that, but again I find it's easy to mess up the pressure

Josh

I hand-hold my Shaptons as well when I'm honing a smiler, the instability does seem to make it simpler to keep the pressure even.

well alright now! i did 30 very light trips around the frictionite with lather and what do you know? popping hairs fairly well! a true thing of beauty. after a quick prep i went to work doing a complete 2 pass shave with a little touch up. i didnt even reach for the de! i am sure the razor isnt as sharp as is could be but it is passible for myself. not as close of a shave compaired to the merkur 38c/derby for now. i am sure with more work on honing and stropping and technique my result will keep improving.

cheers,
ryan
:D :D

I love it when a plan comes together! :D

X

Ryan,

That's great! Congrats. It took me a couple of months to get to that point. :)

Now begins your quest for the perfect edge...

Josh

thanks guys!

the perfect edge... oh boy- i have a long way to go. i almost went out a bought a norton last night. i think i might wait now and get a yellow coticule or a strop and cromium oxide... what do you use to 'finish' edge?

cheers,
ryan

I prefer the coticule for finishing and actual honing. But I have a really coarse beard, and it beats the crap out of my edges.

I've found that edges finished on a pasted strop don't last as long for me--sometimes only three shaves or so.

If you have an average beard, a pasted strop is probably the best initial investment. You can take those barber hone edges up several notches that way. :)

Josh

Once you're popping hairs, a pasted paddle is the easiest and cheapest way to improve that edge. Like JoshEarl, I think that pasted paddles produce somewhat weaker edges, so don't overdo it on the paddles - do just enough laps to get the blade where you want it then stop.

If you want to stick with hones then there are high-grit barber hones out there (do a search), and the Coticule is certainly popular among the honemeisters and probably the least expensive of the exotic naturals (~$50+) from Howard). The Chinese waterstones are quite reasonably priced and also have a smaller but devoted following. Eschers are both unpleasantly expensive and quite hard to come by, but much beloved by the lucky SOBs that have them. The Shaptons are easy to find but still expensive, and AFAIK none of the honemeisters really recommend them.

it seems like the next step for me cost about the same (pasted paddle, coticule, norton). i think i will stick to the stones/hones instead of pasted strops for now due to the reasons stated by josh, parker et al. so i just need to figure out norton 4k/8k or go with a small yellow coticule w/cotigura...
i should have a few wapienica coming next week and will be eager to get them up and running.

cheers,
ryan