And all of a sudden... I solved my coticule. (Slurry Dulling Convo Continued...)

I was playing around with my coticule yesterday. Not sure of the vein, not a La Verte Green but not La Veinette bright-yellow. Somewhere between grey and yellow, like the newer Las Petas or La Veille Rouge de Regne veins. Anyway--doesn't matter, but I don't have access to pics at the moment.

I started with a big ol' slurry to adjust the bevel. Seemed sharp enough. Then, instead of 1-finger drop, I dipped the razor into a cup of water and ran another 8 laps then dipped again for another 8 laps, I kept doing this over and over and over again until I was left with plain ol' water. My stone auto slurries like you wouldn't believe. I just kept going and going-- HHT3. My stone doesn't even produce much swarf.

I no longer believe in "slurry dulling"-- that's a term I onnly know that paplies to coticules with slurry. But if you rub a coticule nagura on a black ark, not a problem, and conversely, on a King 1 K, not a problem. I started diluting yesterday as if I needed to adjust for auto slurry(read: what I don't see), and boom -- results like crazy. Does this make any sense? Anyway, I'm happy as all hell. I figured out my coticule. I should calm down. Last time I was this happy I ended up with my ex girlfriend three days later.

Thanks y'all.

Coticules can be fairly difficult to figure out and each one has its own personality but once you get yours figured out its like a huge "ah-ha' moment. I have had mine a couple of years now and really like the edges I get, especially with Sheffield razors. I think getting the hang of how to use slurry is the secret to these stones as well as most other stones.

Simple trick:
Use a small Translucent Arky for a slurry stone. The little 1x3x¼" are great, smaller works well too. Harder than the Coticule, or most naturals and synthetics, they bring up a very nice slurry and/ or clean the stone.
~Richard

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Originally Posted by Geezer

Simple trick:
Use a small Translucent Arky for a slurry stone. The little 1x3x¼" are great, smaller works well too. Harder than the Coticule, or most naturals and synthetics, they bring up a very nice slurry and/ or clean the stone.
~Richard

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I really like this idea! Sounds like it might be more consistent than a standard coticule-on-coticule slurry.

Thanks for the idea. Cheap trick too.

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Originally Posted by Geezer

Simple trick:
Use a small Translucent Arky for a slurry stone. The little 1x3x¼" are great, smaller works well too. Harder than the Coticule, or most naturals and synthetics, they bring up a very nice slurry and/ or clean the stone.
~Richard

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Translucent slurry on the coticule as if a dikucot? Did I read that correctly? I also like the idea of cleaning the stone after lapping. Very cool.

That would be to make Coticule slurry. Translucents are so hard I'm not sure you could slurry them

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Originally Posted by J743

Translucent slurry on the coticule as if a dikucot? Did I read that correctly? I also like the idea of cleaning the stone after lapping. Very cool.

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Originally Posted by rodb

That would be to make Coticule slurry. Translucents are so hard I'm not sure you could slurry them

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I'll second that. I spent a lot of time this weekend trying to flatten out a pair of translucent stones. My DMT and the diamond lapping plate I've got was barely touching them. I wont say what i resorted to in order to get them flat, its liable to get me tarred, feathered, and run out of town. And the 400 grit sand paper I've got isn't doing much to smooth out the scratches from the diamond plate. Just getting these burnished is gonna be one heck of an uphill battle. And this is the small pair, I don't know what I'm gonna do with the 12 x 2.5 stone I have. :banghead:

Is a Coticule from this La Veille Rouge de Regne vein a good/real good one to have?

I know someone that has one and he wants to get rid of it so curious if it is a good one to own since it would be my only one.

Thx.

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Originally Posted by Geezer

Simple trick:
Use a small Translucent Arky for a slurry stone. The little 1x3x¼" are great, smaller works well too. Harder than the Coticule, or most naturals and synthetics, they bring up a very nice slurry and/ or clean the stone.
~Richard

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Do you happen to have a source for these or do I need to just search online? Will they work with the Coticule from a La Veille Rouge de Regne vein?

Thx.

Some coticules dull in slurry no matter what you try. I've owned several of them. I am happy this worked for you. I owned a coticule once that as soon as you ran a razor through it's slurry (3 strokes TOPS) the razor was a butter knife again.

Some coticules dull in slurry no matter what you try. I've owned several of them. I am happy this worked for you. I owned a coticule once that as soon as you ran a razor through it's slurry (3 strokes TOPS) the razor was a butter knife again.

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Originally Posted by SirMike

Do you happen to have a source for these or do I need to just search online? Will they work with the Coticule from a La Veille Rouge de Regne vein?
Thx.

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I use them on all my stones..well almost all my stones:w

For hones they work well. They are usually used after the swarf gets dirty and the hone starts looking like it is filled with metal dust. I find them at local yard sales, ebay, antique stores and many old machinists have some in their tool boxes if asked nicely. They were often found in sets of three shapes and used to polish molds for the plastic's industry.
They were often used for knife sharpening and many were placed in a sheath pocket on a knife sheath from a knife factory.
~Richard

You could also call or email the Dan's Whetstone Co. in Arkansas. They might have small pieces laying around from making larger hones and would sell you a 1"x2" or something like that inexpensively




Just checked they have 3"x1"x1/4' pocket ones for $20 Ark Translucent

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Originally Posted by Disburden

Some coticules dull in slurry no matter what you try. I've owned several of them. I am happy this worked for you. I owned a coticule once that as soon as you ran a razor through it's slurry (3 strokes TOPS) the razor was a butter knife again.

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Agreed , you don't believe in slurry dulling because of one honing session that went well? Slurry dulling is real. Take any shave ready razor and make a slurry on your coticule. Make a few strokes and strop and shave with it. If you can honestly tell me the edge got better and didn't dull I will box up my collection and send them your way..

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Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

Agreed , you don't believe in slurry dulling because of one honing session that went well? Slurry dulling is real. Take any shave ready razor and make a slurry on your coticule. Make a few strokes and strop and shave with it. If you can honestly tell me the edge got better and didn't dull I will box up my collection and send them your way..

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I thought the way you phrased this was a little offensive. Not because you disagree at first glance, but because it took a pretty adversarial tone. It reads like someone who skimmed what I wrote and then said "hey, junior, settle down..." That was, to me, a little slimy, designed to make me feel small more than it did bring to the discussion.

It wasn't a very thoughtful response, most definitely unfit of the type of gentlemen we hold ourselves to be. If that is how a senior member encourages junior members, I'm a little disappointed. I know credibility is almost like a currency on internet shaving forums, but is it a pre-requisite?


I also question your definition of "honesty," and by that I mean to expose some fallacies in your truth orientations. There's no real tangible marker here. If we both transmit our experiences over the internet, what makes your findings correct over mine? Any more credible over mine? If I were to view a video of yours on youtube...does that mean your theory is automatically correct? Does your having more posts on this specific forum mean anyone with significant lower numbers is automatically barred from critically thinking about his hones?

2. If you are willing to believe I took up your offer and "honestly told you my edge got better after slurry" and you would "box up" your collection for my intended receipt, isn't that a pretty good indication of your capacity for willful suspension of disbelief? It seems to me in the very least you're completely capable of believing me. So your argument reads as follows: "I need either credibility or proof."

3. Many have reported success with a shave ready razor on slurry. Many, for example, have reported a preference for finishing on slurry, and not water. Many, according to the gentleman you quoted, also found this thread enlightening http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...ot-Method-quot; someone who slurry-finishes, and is also more likely to have more experience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Dl0dbnEj3c; "the master at work" refreshing his slurry, only as he goes, only with less viscosity, plus credibility—that's a lot of time in the mud: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=.

4. Didn't you recently start a thread recently entire inspired from one honing session? I noticed a difference in your tone there.

5. I don't believe in the concept of slurry dulling because men more persuasive that you (at this point) have inspired me to think critically about my hones. I believe in auto slurry dulling, which will change from stone to stone. I don't believe this because of one hone session. I believe this because I repeated it 7 times over on my coticule, had better results on my BBW, similar results on my other coticule—will try again on my other coticule, and will do the same when my "la lorraine" layer arrives.

It seems I should be sending you my stones.

I didn't mean to offend you, that was never the intention. Of course I love coticules and want as many people to use them as possible. That's what gets the promotion of their use around and new methods and techniques can be discovered. Great information can be shared. No credibility isn't everything on a forum. I never said that was. I believe you are taking this way to seriously. Do not bring post counts into this and think I said what I said because you have a lower post count or less time on a forum. I would have said that to anyone who proclaimed slurry dulling is not real. That's my opinion. I would appreciate if you stop trying to make this into something it is not. It was not a personal attack on you it was my opinion on a hone I hold dear to my heart.

If you don't believe in slurry dulling.. that's your choice. I just think you should try what I mentioned. Take a shave ready edge and make a slurry. Do 50 light finishing strokes. Strop and shave.

The purpose of diluting is to slowly undo the damage left by the slurry.

Slurry makes the coticule cut faster but also leaves the edge more damaged unless diluted correctly.

You don't have to believe what I say just don't get butt hurt when you make bold statements and someone steps up to offer there opinion. Gentlemen can disagree..

You should be happy you got your coticule to work for you by starting with a heavy slurry and diluting to plain water.

If you look here Slurry dulling ... Real or Fantasy? | The Coticule Club
You will see my opinion is the same no matter who asks the question.

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Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

I didn't mean to offend you, that was never the intention. Of course I love coticules and want as many people to use them as possible. That's what gets the promotion of their use around and new methods and techniques can be discovered. Great information can be shared. No credibility isn't everything on a forum. I never said that was. I believe you are taking this way to seriously. Do not bring post counts into this and think I said what I said because you have a lower post count or less time on a forum. I would have said that to anyone who proclaimed slurry dulling is not real. That's my opinion. I would appreciate if you stop trying to make this into something it is not. It was not a personal attack on you it was my opinion on a hone I hold dear to my heart.

If you don't believe in slurry dulling.. that's your choice. I just think you should try what I mentioned. Take a shave ready edge and make a slurry. Do 50 light finishing strokes. Strop and shave.

The purpose of diluting is to slowly undo the damage left by the slurry.

Slurry makes the coticule cut faster but also leaves the edge more damaged unless diluted correctly.

You don't have to believe what I say just don't get butt hurt when you make bold statements and someone steps up to offer there opinion. Gentlemen can disagree..

You should be happy you got your coticule to work for you by starting with a heavy slurry and diluting to plain water.

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I'm all ready over it. No worries. I got no resentments, and I appreciate the apology.

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Originally Posted by J743

I'm all ready over it. No worries. I got no resentments, and I appreciate the apology.

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OK I appreciate your side of the argument too. Its great to question your stones. I do every day. Sometimes I can come off a little "abrasive" so I'm glad you let me know I was sounding like an a**.

Haha, that was an amusing read. SolitarySoldier is correct in his assessment that you can't form that conclusion off of one stone though. Especially in this case. I don't have much coticule experience, but I've already seen there can be quite a wide variance between stones.

I had a small rubbing stone that I traded with him. My original rubbing stone was very hard. I would say I had to rub it on my PHIG a good 75 strokes to see a light slurry. The one he sent me in exchange is very soft. Within 10 to 15 passes on the same stone the slurry becomes very thick and milky.

I haven't had a chance to see what difference this will make at the edge of a razor, but it was very interesting to see such a variance in the stone. I imagine a coticule made of a hard material like my original would be very easy and intuitive for me to work with, and rather difficult to create slurry dulling with as it would behave much like the stones I am familiar with. Whereas a softer one like the one I received would require a different skillset and technique than I'm used to.

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Originally Posted by J743

I don't believe in the concept of slurry dulling because men more persuasive that you (at this point) have inspired me to think critically about my hones. I believe in auto slurry dulling,

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If you believe one kind of slurry dulls and the other does not, then what do you consider to be different about the two kinds of slurries?

By the way, in my opinion there are three kinds of slurries.
1. auto slurry
2. rubbing stone slurry
3. diamond plate slurry

The biggest problem with Coticules are that each one brings it's own puzzle for you to figure out. I've got mine dialed in (hard with no auto slurry) and it took a lot of trial and error and I can consistently get good edges from it.

I spent an afternoon once with a friend going through his 10+ Coticule collection, the conclusion was they were all different and some were way better than others and that maybe the "bad" ones needed a different technique to work well. That can be the fun and frustration with them.

It sounds like you cracked the puzzle in yours and that's not always easy!!

Well slurry, exactly how or why it works or does not work is one of those mysteries, as no one can see what is happening between the blade and the stone. There are some things we know works well, with some stones, but does not hold true across the board.

Making slurry and using it, can be an art form, in crushing / working and identifying slurries and carriers for different purposes and finishes. There is a good current thread on crushing coticule slurry and even more in the HOTD thread, with links to other old slurry threads. Reading/ feeling the slurry is as much experience, as making and using it.

So, the bottom line and the point Soldier was making is, there is much more to slurry and coticules than just rubbing two stones together and putting a finish on a few razors, and to making a blanket statement about slurry, natural stones in general and coticules in particular, it is presumptive.

The one thing you will learn from naturals is, that there is no consistency in any natural stone, some more so than others.

Coticules are one of the hardest stones to get to work well consistently, because of slurry and the wide variety in the stones composition. Most coticules work best with a very thin or without, any slurry, generally.

Besides, it sounds to me like you are proving his point, that a less thick slurry performed better for you. He’s not saying don’t use slurry or that it does not work, just that you have to experiment with your stone, your razor and your technique. Really you were finishing on a thin finely crushed slurry and then, clear water.

The other thing is what you think is a great edge today, will not seem like so much, a year from now, when you gain much more experience and get to know the nuances of your stone and honing and shaving technique.

Check out these threads and experiment with crushing/working your slurry.

Hone of the Day, post 930

Coticule Slurry on an Ark.

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Originally Posted by Geezer

Simple trick:
Use a small Translucent Arky for a slurry stone. The little 1x3x¼" are great, smaller works well too. Harder than the Coticule, or most naturals and synthetics, they bring up a very nice slurry and/ or clean the stone.
~Richard

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So you take an awesome Arkansas stone and grid it against any second rate rock hoping some good will rub off to fix the problem? This is like taking a good ale shaking it up and spraying the side of a beer truck to make everything inside taste better !!! :rofl2:
I'm just joking !!!!! Someone left the door open so I thought I would throw that mess in !!!! :rofl2: