Creating a micro bevel with mid range hones

So I have been wondering and I know it's been done before. What is the outcome of creating a micro bevel with a 3-4k range hone. Would the micro bevel create an edge that was shave ready despite the lower grit rating of the hone being used to create it?

The sharpness comes from the bevel. I remember Glen telling me that when I was starting out on my journey.

I'd like to hear your take on why it would/wouldn't work.

I have tried this and am about to take it on a test run. I'm doing this out of curiosity and bring because I need to.

Well you can shave off of a 1-3or4K edge. A micro bevel created at the mid range would likely just be a bevel by the time it came to the finish, unless of course the bevel was very wide to start with. I have used micro bevels on wood working tools for a long time and have used them on occasion on on razors. On a razor they are half the width of what can be a very small bevel. There is a very small amount of steel that makes the difference between the bevel and the micro bevel and it would be easily removed. Your theory is very sound. Micro bevels tend to work best on heavier blades, like 1/4 hollows, in part because of the width of the bevel. Perhaps what we should do is take a newly honed bevel to the 4K level and test shave it, then add a layer of tape and then go back to the 4K and do ten very light stokes and then test the edge again in order to decide how much better it made our 4K edge. Although I have always used it at the final finish with good result, it would be interesting to see what it does at 4K.

A micro bevel is used to cut a new edge, without polishing a full bevel, usually done for speed, (on Tools) or to increase the bevel angle when the secondary bevel is too shallow.

I doubt it would improve a shaving edge, yes you could shave off of it, but the edge does not get really straight and comfortable, until about 6-8k.

The straightness comes from the finer stria of the 8k, not the angle. A 3k edge is still a 3k edge regardless of the bevel angle.

A 3-4k micro beveled edge would be pretty harsh on my face and while it may shave, it may also produce epic razor burn. If the question is what would be the effect of a 3-4k micro bevel then finishing the razor to at least 8k? That is a horse of a different color. Personaly , the only time I use a micro bevel is at the final finishing level when encountering a blade with wide bevels or those blades with crumbly steel that do not hold up well to higher grit finishers. Just my opinion, and I have been proven wrong before.

Where I am coming from is being a mainly coticule honer I often utilize a micro bevel. Add a layer of tape and hone until I get where i want all on clear water.

Today I brought out my newly acquired shappie 3k that makes me a happy chappie. Honed on it from a dull bevel until it was brilliantly polished for such a low grit. Stropped and checked my HHT. I know I know but I've got the test calibrated to the results of shaving on my face.

I thought hmm maybe a layer of tape and 5 very light strokes will create a comfortable shaving micro bevel. If not I can always do water only strokes on a coticule to finish things up. So I did just that. 5 ultra light strokes and stropped again.

I am rather interested in the results of the shave.

This article talks about achieving a shave ready razor without going higher than 4k by using edge trailing strokes as well as stropping (although in the experiment he goes to 6k I think). Interesting reading but I haven't tried it. It might have been referenced and discussed in other threads already - I haven't checked.
https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com...-razor-honing/

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Originally Posted by xiaotuzi

This article talks about achieving a shave ready razor without going higher than 4k by using edge trailing strokes as well as stropping (although in the experiment he goes to 6k I think). Interesting reading but I haven't tried it. It might have been referenced and discussed in other threads already - I haven't checked.
https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com...-razor-honing/

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Yes I have recently used his metal polish on hanging denim/linen and recommend it 100%. Works extremely well and can bring up an edge that's not quite there yet. I'll shave half a face with 3k micro bevel and then strop on metal polish and try again. If this checks out I can easily drop 3/4 of my stone collection.

I tried it a couple of times at the 8k "Pre-polisher" level

But I have to agree with Shaun what I found it that by starting lower basically you are simply creating a New Bevel at .67° steeper per layer of tape added..

The only time I go lower then the final finish when even using a Secondary bevel (Very Rare) is when using the 16k and 30k Shaptons..

I more look at the Secondary bevel use as a test platform for the steel. if you have a razor that shaves better with a secondary bevel why the heck would you simply not add that extra layer of tape at the beginning next time you hone it ??? Really ???


Explanation in numbers:

Honing on the spine no tape call the angle 15.5°
Honing with one layer of tape say 16.3°
Micro bevel with the secondary layer 17°

Now if you find that the 1 layer was failing and the micro bevel was working why the heck would you simply not start the new bevel; at 2 layers and have a 17° full bevel next time you hone the razor :shrug:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

But I have to agree with Shaun what I found it that by starting lower basically you are simply creating a New Bevel at .67° steeper per layer of tape added..

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Ever with minimal strokes you were finding this?

Micro Bevels are great, for experimentation with problematic edges.

I often strop on a metal polish sailcloth strop, after a 2k to de-burr and edge, and/or after an 8k edge and before a finisher. You will have an almost stria free bevel, that you can then lay down, finish stone stria and very straight edge.

It is not a shaveable edge though. Metal polish abrasives are of an unknown grit and depending on the goal, Diamond and CBN are much more predictable and shaveable.

Yes, if you remove the tape, a 3-4k micro bevel, will easily be removed by an 8k with just a few laps. Remember at 8k, you are not re-setting a whole bevel, you are just removing the high corner (spine side) of the micro bevel and flattening it out to form a new bevel.

If you keep it on, you are just polishing the new bevel and making it wider as it cuts deeper into the secondary bevel, and it is quickly no longer a “Micro” bevel, but a secondary and soon to be a new bevel at a steeper angle.

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Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

Ever with minimal strokes you were finding this?

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Yes, but you have to try it yourself to see.

We are talking changing the very fin of the bevel so we are talking sub-micron adjustments here, so very little is needed to change stuff..

Do not just take my word for it, mess with the process have fun and play around with Micro-bevels

I found that they are pretty much a good way to MINUTELY adjust the very edge without having to re-bevel to get a feel for what you can draw out of the edge..

But honestly I have one customer that asks for them on all his razors, other then him and experimenting I haven't found much use in them

OK thanks Glen and Euclid for the help explaining things. I still plan on shaving with a micro beveled 3k edge just to satisfy my curiosity. I've got a new coticule on standby that showed up in the mail today..

Not recommended. It shaved but it had a pretty rough after burn on the neck. Will not be exploring this in any more depth. It doesn't work.

As far as the metal polish on denim goes - all keep in mind that he doesn't recommend stopping there - the final steps recommended in that article are 0.25u PCD on leather strop and then of course bare leather. That would make a heck of a lot better feeling edge than just metal polish on denim as long as its not overcooked.