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Attachment 241936
Attachment 241937
Is there any hope to set the bevel on this razor? The shinny part is the first few strokes on a Carborundum. the bevel is marked with black marker.
Maybe 10 layers of tape? 20? 30? Wooden wedge? I have no idea how this razor was honed prior to my discovery.
Never seen one this bad.
Glen? Lynn? Anyone?
The angle clearly is way too low with that single layer of tape. You will need to experiment with more layers.
You also need to watch for tape wear. Those "few strokes on a Carborundum" already drastically wore your tape and cut all the way through at the point end.
My guess, if that is all that you have done so far, someone probably honed it like a knife. So, it's either more tape or time. Before you invest too much time, measure the blade thickness and width, then calculate the current untaped bevel. From there, you can dimensionally add layers of tape to get a preferred bevel angle. This is mainly so that you're not cutting a bevel at 30 degrees with 17 layers of tape or anything crazy like that.
Once you have your layers figured out, if it truly was sharpened like a knife at a high angle, you will be honing like that until you remove enough metal to reach the edge.
How about a pic without the ink and without the tape?
Looks like it’s been put to a belt sander, freehand.
Here it is with 5 layers of tape. I know never to fix a trouble blade with tape on but I don't know how else to do it.
Attachment 241951
Attachment 241952
How thick is 5 layers of tape?
How about taking a 20 gauge piece of sheet metal and making it a frameback.
If I remember right 3m's website says 7mm per layer. I think it is probably more like 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by 32t
3m Temflex 1700
The confusion could certainly be on my end but I am thinking more .07 or .05 mm
28 gauge is 0.32 mm approximately.
Just tossing out ideas. Copper would look interesting!:D
My 3M Super 88 is .215 mm thick. 5 layers=1.075 mm. I think the confusion comes from mils vs mm measurement.
So using 1.075 mm. and using U.S.G
20 gauge is .953 mm
19 gauge is 1.11 mm
I think I remember reading each layer of tape adds about 1 degree,or slightly less than 1 degree of angle.
I am now looking and seeing that the different material makes a difference in gauge thickness.
steel, aluminium, zinc.
I learn something new every day!:rofl2:
I have seen that too, but it was wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by xiaotuzi
7mm ? Are you sure ? How can a piece of tape be over 1/4 " thick ?Quote:
Originally Posted by dta116
Most electrical tape is about 7 mil, or 0.007 inches, thick. 3M Super88 tape is 8.5 mil, or 0.0085 inches thick. That converts to 0.2159 mm. Thus, 5 layers of tape would be just over 1mm thick.
Gauge and "mils" are the biggest pain as far as measurements go. Especially when you're make boats out of stainless, mild steel and aluminum. A "mil" is a "thou" or a thousandth of an inch.
33+ tape = .007" thick; .014" doubled over the spine
88 tape = .0085" thick; .017" doubled over spine
Just another reason to hate the imperial measurement system
If it were me I'd drop back to a single layer of tape and set the bevel same as I would if the thing were breadknifed. I can't stand one layer of tap, much less 5. That would drive me up a wall.
You should be looking at a angle around 16 to 18 degrees if you own a little digital bevel box you could easily find out how many layers of tape you need to get near an exceptable bevel. I forgot to say that angle should be about 9 degrees both sides so combining through the center of the bevel apex to make it 18 degrees.
You will need to remove some metal, if you have a diamond hone try that with one layer of tape
According to this link and King David I of Scotland I have a large mans inch. 1 1/8" Modern inch since 1959 in the USA. :gaah::rofl2:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inch
Ok, Ok guys. My bad....I meant 7 MILS
OK, so let's get back to RAZOR, shall we?
One layer of tape yielded way too low of an angle. Five layers reached the edge but was perhaps a little to high of an angle. Please try the same thing again with four, or maybe three, layers of tape. Initially you might as well try to match the existing bevel angle and you can find that using the same strategy that you already did with one and five layers. After you find that correct tape number, then start honing for real. Just make sure that you place your outermost layer of tape in a manner to make it easier to separate and peel off from the other layers, as you will need to replace that outer layer frequently as it wears.
Don't give up!
Here is what I see but, I bet you can feel better then I can see
Attachment 242045
The bevel is up into the belly of the blade, if I could see the thickness of the tang I could guess better as to how much
The thickness of the belly is so much that you can no longer get the correct angle at the bevel, that thick ridge I outlined needs to be taken out.
You might simply be chasing the edge now, or as you found need to use a very high angle to get over that "Hump"
Use the formula here
(2 * asin(.181 / (2 * .620)) * 180) / pi = 16.786646
Red is spine width Blue is Blade size and simply put it in the google search box and you will get the bevel angle Green (thanks Gugi)
Once you know that, at least you have a starting point, but you still have to overcome that hump of the belly, and to do that correctly it is going to need to be ground out..
And 5 layers got him past the hump and to the edge. That's why I thought it might be worth it to try 3 or 4 layers to try to match the existing bevel to see if he can get that to shave with a lot less steel removal.
A pic of the razor without tape, and measure the spine.
Find out what you have to work with, first…
Attachment 242047Attachment 242048Attachment 242049Attachment 242050Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
I measured the angle last night with an angle protractor to an angle of 18° with 4 layers of tape. accuracy questionable.
Here are the pics of the bevel with 4 layers of tape. and without.
Here are the measurements with a caliper.
Spine thickness without tape
4.91mm - heel, 4.84mm - mid, 4.80mm - toe
Spine thickness with 4 layers
6.14mm - heel, 6.08mm - mid, 6.04mm - toe
Blade height without tape
17.22mm - heel, 17.84mm - mid, 18.77mm - toe
So by using the formula
You are about 15° without tape and 19° with it
So you should be good to shave just so long as you can hit the edge with the hones :)
Anyone with a good way to mark the razor to remember 4 layers for future honings?
I keep that kind of info in a notebook, but I doubt that you will be able to forget this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by dta116
I keep a little honing log and write that stuff in there.
Adam
That's true! Glen fixed up a W&B for me that needs 3 layers of tape to hone and I've never forgotten that!Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman7
Adam
This one would benefit from non-standard taping. As it is taped in the photo, the wear is down in what should be part of the concavity of the blade.
Yes, I would say that too. I would try cutting the tape to be narrower before taping so the hone wear would be higher up on the tape nearer the actual spine. Alternately drop back to 2 layers of tape and see what happens. Is that a heavy near wedge you are working on?Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
Bob
Randy Tuttle (randydance062449) uses tape on each side of the blade instead of folding it over on blades like that. That way you can adjust the amount of tape that goes down the sides of the blade. He showed me that and it works great
Darn, I thought I invented that one myself, almost got my patent. Sharpie the tape to know for sure if you need to.Quote:
Originally Posted by rodb
I personally would have had it re-ground.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
Cut your losses mate, buff it up and pass it on.
