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I received a Gold Rex razor in the mail recently. It is in excellent condition, and I have heard great things about these razors. However, I can't seem to get it honed to shave well. I use the same progression that I'm accustomed to, finishing on 12k Naniwa and polishing with CrOx on a strop. I just honed 2 King Pelicans from bread-knife edges and they are excellent shavers. The Gold Rex does shave just with more effort and more strokes.
What do I need to do?
First thing to check would be the bevel. Do you have magnification to check the very edge?
What are you using before the 12k?
It's almost always the bevel not being fully set.
I have the Norton 220/1000 and 4000/8000 set. I went back to the 1000 for the first time I rehoned it, the second time I went to 220. Never had this much trouble before. I can check it under 30x.
If it's an extra hollow grind and you use to much pressure you will flex the bevel and not get to the edge. If it's stainless steel they can be harder and slower to set a bevel. Even if it's NOS still check for a frown
220 might be to aggressive to get a nice smooth edge on the blade. I would check it for sparkly bits, throw some sharpie on it (make sure it is dry) then do a lap. Then visual inspection to see how it came off. Throwing a pic or two on here might help once the you do a lap with the sharpie on the bevel.
I'll try the sharpie trick and get back with the result. I already hone with only enough pressure to contact the stone. There isn't enough of a frown to detect, but that may be the case if it is minimal; the sharpie will tell.
For me, the naniwa 12k is prone to make edges chippy if you do too many laps. Even with feather-light pressure. Less is definitely more.
Yup, you will have to get rid of all the 220 stria, no telling deep it is. No need, especially on a pre honed razor to go to 220, probably not even 1k.
But now, you want to look at the edge and see if the bevel is fully set at 1k, most likely it is not.
Look at it and tell us what you see, some pics might help.
The only time I've used the Norton 220 was after grinding out a chip, and it was only used enough to get the bevel close to meeting, then I jumped up to the 1K to finish up. Unless you're starting out with no edge what so ever I don't recommend going below 1K. Don't be afraid to use pressure on the 1K to abrade steel and get the bevel meeting, just remember to gradually reduce your pressure until you're not using much so the stria isn't too deep when you jump up to 4K. Some pressure at bevel set and at when you start at the 4K level is fine. Just be sure it isn't enough to flex the blade.
So, that would be close to zero pressure on full hollows, right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal
I test full hollows by getting in a strong light and seeing how much pressure it takes to see some flex using my thumbnail, you'll be surprised and a little scared how little it takes
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman7
Good point. Your post and Rod's made me go back and double check my collection. I thought I had a few full hollows, but it turns out the vast majority are half hollows. It takes significantly more pressure to flex those edges compared to the one full hollow I have. And now I dread taking it to the hones because it hasn't seen one since it came from ebay.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman7
Just, ink the bevel, you will quickly see how much pressure it takes to lift the edge from the stone.
It’s not that big a deal.
Not saying it is a big deal. Just that when I read blanket statements telling people that they can and should use a lot of pressure in the early stages of honing I cringe. I've seen full hollows nearly ruined from people using too much pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
You are dealing with a pretty hard steel razor, harder than any German made razor.
You will have to do a bit more work on the 1k to set the bevel. You will have to do some more work on the 4k to remove the 1k scratches and then a bit more on the 8k to remove the 4k scratches. Flexing should not be an issue, those are 1/2 hollow and not very flexible, still make sure you do not overexert pressure or you will end up with scratched belly.
Under magnification I have a chippy edge. I did strokes on the 1k until I couldn't see the chips any longer, then finished with the sequence with only 10 laps on the 12k Naniwa. I can see see some very small microchips, but it is an improvement; the next shave will tell for sure.
Is there a way to prevent these chips from forming? I have only had it happen when I was first learning to hone and doing back-and-forth strokes. I have not had this problem since.
If you can see the chips, it will not shave well, or certainly, as good as it can.
The chips are from the 220 grit and deep stria it caused. If the steel is hard and or weak the damage goes deep. Even after removing the deep stria and edge chipping, the steel can be weakened and microchip later.
You will have to remove enough of the steel, to get past the problem before it will hold an edge.
Joint the edge lightly, to remove the chips on the corner of the 1k and re-set the bevel, try to use lite pressure to re-set the bevel. They are already flat and in the correct plane, so it should go quickly and not require a lot of pressure on a 1k. Try to get the edge as straight as possible, at 1k, by jointing and setting with lite pressure. It will pay you large dividends on the finish stones.
In your first experience it was not the stroke that caused your chipping, it was either too low a grit on the stone, too much pressure, bad steel or a combination of any of the three. The half lap stroke is an excellent stroke, just make sure to use pressure only on the forward stroke, and on higher grit stones, lift the razor off the stone on the return stroke so you are only doing edge leading strokes.
Pressure and how much is one of those things you just have to experience, to know how much is enough or too much.
Lately I have coached a lot of guys that are afraid to use any pressure, at bevel set and are doing hundreds of laps setting bevels. They have read the no pressure mantra and take it to the extreme.
This simple technique (that I learned here) has provided much nicer edges and has saved me hours worth of honing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
I used the method suggested by Euclid 440 with very satisfactory results. Thank you for the excellent advice; I'm sure it will save me much time on the hones in the future.
If you're referring to jointing the edge, I'll agree that's a large help. It used to confuse me, but now that I've tried it a few times I've gotten a better understanding of what it does. It really does help straighten the edge, sometimes I think better than you could if you simply kept trying to grind past the chips.