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Attachment 243531I was just getting ready to start working on honing the damage from the toe of this blade and noticed the slight smile in the spine, then I noticed next to a straight line the blade seems to follow said smile but has a slight frown in the center. So should this blade actually have a smile and if so do you do a heel leading stroke to get the smile back? Or do you first remove slight frown then work on getting smile back? Thanks for assistance fellas.
i have a brand new razor (TI) with a smiling spine and a straight edge. not sure why they do this. As i hone it I hone toward a smile but don't go as far as re honing it so it is a smile (if this makes sense). I also have straight spined blades with a slight smile. i would get rid of the frown for sure but not worry about making the smile perfect with the spine. JMHO
The curve of the edge seems to match the curve of the spine pretty closely.
I have another W&B special its at home right now so I can't compare but I don't remember it having the smile spine. I just don't know which is right to do. I want to remove the frown for sure tintin. I agree sqzbxr, the smile to me seems to match the spine so it seems like it is supposed to smile...
I have a couple that have smile spines and straighter edges. At the end of the day, it depends on what you want to do. To get the smile or straighten the edge, you'll have to remove metal from the heel and toe. It just varies on quantity. Try measuring with a caliper if you can, along the blade. Looks and pictures can be deceiving.
I would say that it is most definitely supposed to have a smile. The frown may also be a flat from a previous owner trying to hone the smile out of it - or just poor technique. Either way, it should be easy enough to correct while bevel setting and routine after that. I have a Joseph Rodgers smiling half hollow that is a superb shaver.
Attachment 243533
toe= .651 center=.640 heel=.662 it is definitely bigger toe and heel dinnermint. I was looking in the library and seem to see info on honing a razor with a smile but did not really see much on relieving a frown. I have moderate honing experience just my own razors what stroke removes the frown?Quote:
Originally Posted by dinnermint
That is a great looking Joseph and sons :D
I would say it should have a smile as well. Here is are a couple of production smilers, and a custom Livi I took a pic of to show a smile sometime back ;
Attachment 243534Attachment 243535
Thanks for sharing the photos gents. I found a thread about how to remove the frown in the advanced honing section, so now I guess my question is this, to keep the smile or return the smile remove frown first then revise the smile? The 3 blades I have messed with honing have been my own and all straight thus far so this will be a fun learning experience:D
If it was mine, from what I can see in the photo, I think I would throw a piece of tape on the spine and just hone it with a rolling stroke like I was going along with the smile. When I got down just to a bit nearly past the frown I'd start to go through a progression, sharpening to finishing. Here is the 1961 barber manual PDF from the SRP library which talks about smiling razors and their benefits.Quote:
Originally Posted by ejmolitor37
http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...t_-_Honing.pdf
^ this.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
You're only just over a hundredth off, just keep the toe and heel on the hone longer during a rolling x-stroke to compensate for the extra material.
I would hone out the frown from the center of the smile and then hone the smile. Especially because this will be a little more challenging both by its nature and because you are relatively new to this, I strongly agree that this should be done with a taped spine.
You can do it either way, by honing or set the smile, grind the shape of the smile, then hone it.
It probably had a smile originally and was honed, with a straight stroke which honed a frown in the middle of the blade.
You don’t remove a frown, you remove metal from the toe and heel to the bottom of the frown. It is much easier and the smile will be more consistent if you measure and match the curve of the spine. The goal is to remove as little metal and blade width as possible.
You don’t have to remove much, just in the right places.
The easiest and most efficient way to do it is to measure and make a template. A black sharpie will give you a very good Idea of what it will look like before you remove, any material.
Here is a recent post, on how to re-set a smile, (Make Me Smile).
If you look at the photo that you posted, you can see the two points that flank the frown. Those are the points that need to be removed first during the edge re-profiling. You can assess the original condition, and your progress during re-profiling, by holding the blade up to a light with the edge lightly placed against a flat hone. In the same manner that your line in the photo helps to visualize the problem area, the light shining through the gap between the edge and the hone will show you the areas that need to be removed.
Agreed. It looks as a smiling razor which has been 'straight-honed' instead of swooped upon the stones, as was necessary and proper. Some reshaping is in order.
Looks not so bad, though.
Holy smokes thanks for all the advice and replies. I will give it a go take my time and see what happens. Appreciate all your help very much :D
And remember that Mainaman is only a half hour away if you need help.
Oh yes I contacted him and thankfully he is going to take me under his wing as soon as we can get a day where our schedules line up. So far going slow and taking my time combining a couple different suggestions is working well. Slow and easy. Thanks for your help UtopianQuote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
Excellent! In that case, you might want to consider holding off on that razor until you can do it in person, since it is a bit more challenging. Alternatively, you can just go for it and Mainaman can be your safety net.
Stefan is a very nice guy who is very knowledgeable with all things razor related.
I have some spare time on my breaks at work so I am going for it and I ill stop before really flubbing things up. I am excited to start learning the ways from Stefan, I have been doing alright but I can not wait to expand and learn more. Thanks so muchQuote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
Attachment 243679
Well here we are, I do not have the exact curve of the spine. But I do have a nice clean bevel and a slight smile. It is not perfect but I have learned a lot doing this. For some reason I really struggled getting a bevel to begin with but finally tried a different stroke and got that accomplished. After getting hair to be removed easily went to 4k/8k and went with pyramid honing from there. Now to strop when I get home and in a couple days test shave and see what happens. Thank you all for your advice and encouragement. All your words are greatly appreciated and a huge help to a beginner like myself.
I vote it's supposed to smile. A swayback spine with a straight edge is an abomination - I won't buy one.
Just use a rolling stroke -biasing the pressure to the toe and heel as you make your stroke.
Cheers, Steve
Well got to test shave and it was great! :) I'm pretty certain it was my best work to date, could also be better technique. Either way I'm happy. Thanks again to all your helpful advice fellas
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