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  1. #1
    Carbon-steel-aholic DwarvenChef's Avatar
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    Default 12k Shapton Pro or yellow Couticle

    I'm at odds on this "Upgrade" in stones. While I tend to not need that fine a stone on my kitchen knives I'm sure I'll want to use it on a few of them. The primary use though would be for razors. My question and headache is what would be better, the versatility of the Shapton or the couticle everyone says is key... Wishing my job payed more and my expences where less

  2. #2
    Heat it and beat it Bruno's Avatar
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    I only have the coticule, but I understood that the shaptons are quite expensive.
    Small coticules are pretty cheap on www.theperfectedge.com
    If price is a point, then a coticule is the way to go.
    Til shade is gone, til water is gone, Into the shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath.
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  3. #3
    Razorsmith JoshEarl's Avatar
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    One thing you might consider if you want to use it for knives, too, is that that the coticule is fairly soft. It only has one side, since the other is slate, so you'd probably want to lap it after each knife honing session. This would wear it down more quickly than you might want to with an expensive stone.

    I have no experience with the Shaptons, though. They might be equally soft.

    Josh

  4. #4
    Razor Afficionado
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    if you are looking into a shapton as i was, then i might suggest the M15 instead of the Pro series. it's made with natural stone material in a clay binder so it's made to feel more like a natural stone (similar to an awase stone i've head) and are also slower cutting than the pro series and form a slurry, unlike the pro series.

    theres also the M5 which is similar to the pro series but with less abbrasive so it cuts slower but has the same feeling. it's also half the thickness with some kind of laminate backing...i think it's like a stepping stone to the pro to see if you want to make the leap in price (it's about half the cost)

    either the M5, M15 or Pro series can be found on the japan sites (rakuten or yahoo! japan) you'll need a proxy to buy em but they are considerably cheaper this way (if you take your time you can find the pro series for less than the M15 series. The cheapest M15 i found was 5980yen or $49.00 US but there are also the seller fees and shipping)

    there is also a kitayama stone that starts at 8000 grit but produces a result similar to 12000 as a slurry is formed and broken down, price is between the M5 and M15 (cheapest i found was 4300yen = $35.00 US (ass on seller fees and shipping)

    but you can also get a tried-tested-and-true 6x2 yellow coticule for $74.95 + shipping for Howard...

    food for thought

  5. #5
    Member clehman67's Avatar
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    Default Coticule vs 12k Shapton

    Hi,

    I was looking into purchasing a finishing/polishing stone as well, but can't decide on the Belgian Coticule or the 12k Shapton. I looked on The Perfect Edge website and he says that the yellow is roughly 8k...so why would someone buy it if they get essentially the same thing with the Norton 4k/8k? I realize that tastes vary, but when one (the coticule) runs around 200 dollars and the Pro Shapton is half that price...in this economy, my tastes can be flexible.



    On a separate (but similar) note I bought a Franz Swaty recently and from what I have read on the forums it would fall roughly in the 4k to 6k range...would that be accurate? I've included a couple of snapshots for reference so you know what I'm working with.



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  6. #6
    There is no charge for Awesomeness Jimbo's Avatar
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    I'd go for the Shapticule - get the 16K ceramic on glass and superglue it to the slate back of a coticule. Best of both worlds there.

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  8. #7
    illegitimum non carborundum Utopian's Avatar
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    I would call the Swaty closer to 8-10K, but it looks like someone beat the hell out of yours judging from the pockmarks in it. Is the back side in the same condition? If not, then use the back side as the stone is homogenous and so identical front and back. On the other hand, if the back is in the same condition, then you might want to lap it before using it.

    Depending on just how sharp and perfectionistic you want to go, that Swaty if reconditioned, could be the only finishing stone you need.

  9. #8
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    There's no reason to buy a $200 coticule, the 6 inch ones are much more affordable, you really don't need anything more than 4x2 or 6x1.5.

    That said, a good finishing stone on the cheap is the chinese 12k stone from woodcraft, just about the best value for the price: Natural Polishing Water Stone - Woodcraft.com

    But if you can clean that swaty up it may be good enough, though there's no guarantee on it's grit rating, you may have to try it out to see whether it's worth using.

  10. #9
    Heat it and beat it Bruno's Avatar
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    The grit ratings don't compare that well, because coticule grit are round, whereas sapton and norton ceramic grit is sharp and pointy.
    So 8K ceramic grit is much more aggressive than 8K coticule grit.

    Personally I'd buy the 6x2 coticule if I had to choose on a budget. It's big enough, and I like natural finishing stones.
    Til shade is gone, til water is gone, Into the shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath.
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  11. #10
    Senior Member blabbermouth JimmyHAD's Avatar
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    Concerning the M versus the Pro series this off of the Shapton site here,"

    Q: What's the difference between the Professional and M15 series? They look pretty much the same except one comes with a plastic case.
    A: The professional series stones have 30% more particles by volume than the M series. They are mixed differently and they act quite differently. The 5000 and 8000 in the pro series do not "load up". This has been a problem with some steels in the M series. The 12000 is designed for stainless and will load with the soft iron in a Japanese chisel."


    I have the Pros in the complete series from 1 to 30K and if I was doing both kitchen knives and razors I would go for the 12K pro. I assume your knives are stainless ? Shapton also points out that the higher grits are for polishing an already sharp edge so a 4 or in the Pro series a 5K is needed to get to the level of sharpness needed to begin polishing usually with an 8. The 12 and up is icing on the cake.


    I have a Swaty like yours and I used it to polish my razors after the 8K before I bought the 12K. It worked well but going back to the knives I find it a bit small for working on large blades.


    With razors in mind if I had it to do over again and I was on a budget I would get a 6X2 Coticule with a slurry stone and the Chinese 12K. The coticule is more versatile especially if you get a natural with both sides cutting.
    Be careful how you treat people on your way up, you may meet them again on your way back down.

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