Can a razor pass all the bevel setting test and still not be set?

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Originally Posted by DrDalton

3 layers of tap seem a lot for a relatively new blade without significant spine wear.

That may be the problem, I’ll try to explain from my own experiance

I’ve made a number of razors for myself out of the same type of file (keeping the factory heat treatment). One of them (the first I made) has a spine to blade width ratio of ~2.5:1, the second has a ratio of ~3:1 and the later one that I made has a ratio of ~3.7:1.

All the blades have the same steel and the same heat treatment, but no matter how many times I hone each of them (and I’ve done them all at least a dozen times), the first two never shave as comfortably as the third one. The shaves are close and smooth, but the razor tugs at the hairs as it cuts.

The only major variable between the razors is the bevel angle, and the larger bevel angles just don’t cut as easily as they have to drive a bigger wedge through the hair.

The three layers of tape may be raising the bevel angle to where (for your hair, prep and technique) it tugs a bit as it cuts.

It appears from the sharpness tests (and the BBS shave) that you have the razor reasonable honed, so If the razor were mine I would touch it up on the hones without any tape to see if reducing the bevel angle was enough to get rid of the tugging.

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That's what I was thinking or just one layer of tape, no more than that.

I have had similar experience with my Wedges as well. Tugging and pulling. Until I laid the blade flat on my face. Deadnuts flat and I fell in love with mine. Angle of attack was my culprit.
Its passing all the tests. Please keep us updated with your results.

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Originally Posted by dshaves

When I bought it I was told to send it back and they would hone it (it had the factory edge on it), I was so pissed that they would ship it to me like that and not offer me any compensation for missing the chip. This is a well known distributor. Not going to bash any names here. Just telling how I decided to start over on this razor...

I have re honed this razor start to finish at least 20 times to zero success lol. Maybe because it is a hard blade I think I must use lots of pressure. I am not sure if the steel is brittle I read that somewhere with older Hart blades?

I have always from the beginning thought I have been using too much downward pressure. Do you have an exercise to correct that bad habit? All my razor are more sharp then they are comfortable.

The spine is 6.35mm thick with the width of the blade at just shy of 7/8. I have nine other Harts :)

Also if I am using a shapton glass 1k stone and it clogs up really fast is that an indication of too much pressure?

I am really trying to get that missing piece figured out, I don't mind if the truth is I have been doing the bevel set wrong as long as I can learn how to do it right :)

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It sounds like you are "Chasing the Edge" every now and then you have to step back and look at it through different eyes

There were some of the older Harts that were honed and needed to be honed with two layers of tape..

That being said you need to learn to Torque the blade toward the edge while honing, almost like turning a screwdriver

If you want I will pm you my address and I will hone it at no charge so you can get another set of hands and eyes on it, shipping is on you honing is on me :)

I have only seen one Hart out of quite a few that I thought had a bad temper, seen a couple that had questionable geometry back when they started,, but all in all recently their QC on the steel has been pretty good

The offer is there on the table

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

It sounds like you are "Chasing the Edge" every now and then you have to step back and look at it through different eyes

There were some of the older Harts that were honed and needed to be honed with two layers of tape..

That being said you need to learn to Torque the blade toward the edge while honing, almost like turning a screwdriver

If you want I will pm you my address and I will hone it at no charge so you can get another set of hands and eyes on it, shipping is on you honing is on me :)

I have only seen one Hart out of quite a few that I thought had a bad temper, seen a couple that had questionable geometry back when they started,, but all in all recently their QC on the steel has been pretty good

The offer is there on the table

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I would jump on this offer. I have picked Glenn's brains and he has always pointed me True North. As you already stated it can be a bear to hone a wedge. Small flat rate box. 3days anywhere in the lower 48.

Thank you all for your posts. At the moment I took the Hart back to the stones with 1 layer of tape only, re established the bevel with a quarter of the pressure I normally use and the bevel was set without any reflection from my phones led flashlight! I finished the shapton glass stone progression to 16k. The edge looks better than ever! I do believe I was using way too much pressure. I will shave test tonight to report back with results.

Glen I am very thankful for your offer, pending tonight's shave will determine whether the razor sets sail or not :)

Sorry but I won't be able to shave until tomorrow afternoon, I will then update! Thanks again gentleman

I used to have issues with my Harts when I took up honing.
I was making 2 mistakes.
1. Too much pressure.

2. Over setting the bevel, . You can go too far when setting the bevel.

# I think the terminology is, cutting behind the fin.

I am a Honemeister now!!! Just kidding however last nights shave was one of the smoothest and most comfortable shaves I have ever had. No aftershave sting at all!!! I repeated the process with two other razors I have to confirm what I was doing wrong and they all shaved wonderfully :rock:

Okay, what I have learned so far...

1. I was...embarrassingly using way too much spine or downward pressure at bevel set and through the whole progression since I have started honing :( I did this by using two hands and baring down on the poor razor. My reason for using two hands was I had a hard time honing with one hand from the beginning keeping the blade on the stone evenly (dexterity impatience!!!). The way that I corrected this was to use 1 hand by pinching the tang only....like Lynn's videos, this way I was limiting downward pressure 75% less and I used a 45 degree angle to help me learn the dexterity I needed to torque the blade but not roll it on the edge and have to start all over again. This helped me take it slow to set the bevel (it really didn't take long at all). I used a bright LED flashlight from my phone to make sure there was no reflection from the edge before moving on.

2. I have not been torquing the edge of the blade to the stone. This is probably in combination to my number 1 problem, I am thinking they go hand in hand if you do one then the other must be wrong also.

Other curious findings, for me doing circles counter clockwise really hit the center of the blade to the toe and circles clockwise really nailed the heal to the center of the blade. I don't know why but this really helped honing the whole blade. I would finish with heal first 45 degree X strokes until the edge felt smooth on the stone then on to the next stone.

I really appreciate everyone's help, I needed to pass some of my theories as to why my honing woes persist via some pros to confirm or deny so I can find the missing piece to the puzzle. I also hope this helps someone else! Please ask me any Q's I am much better at finding what I am doing wrong first before I learn the right way LOL!

Congratulations on your success. It is not brain surgery or black magic, lol.....

Pressure, how much and where is usually the key, for most new honers. How much, is difficult to tell someone to use, other than, more or less.

The difficult thing for new honers to accept is, you have to do, what each razor needs. Two identical razors, can hone very differently, and most will need more attention, at the heel and toe. Formulaic honing rarely works for all razors, they are just guides, looking at the bevels and edge will quickly tell you where you need more work.

Changing directions of the circles, will change the pressure. If you hone a lot, you will eventually learn to feel the difference of the bevel on the stone, but it is just one test, and it takes a quite a while to calibrate.

A visual test, is more consistent. Look straight down on the edge, if you see reflections, the bevel is not set. Then, just remove, all the previous stria from each stone in the progression. Make sure to remove all the circular/angular stria, with finishing straight or diagonal laps, or it will cause you no end of problems in the higher grit stones. I often use circles to set a bevel and again on the transition stone, 3 or 4k to remove all the deep 1k stria. Then finish with straight strokes, before moving up. Straight or angular laps will show you, if you have removed all the angular stria.

Test, test, test, I use the Thumb Pad Test, Hair Test, and Visual with 100X, looking at the bevels and lastly the edge. If any tests fail, back to the stone. Do not rely on a single test.