I have tray to understand with videos and I can.
How a new honer physically understands is done in 4K stone.
thanks
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I have tray to understand with videos and I can.
How a new honer physically understands is done in 4K stone.
thanks
The standard answer would be : Move on when you have removed all the 1k larger scratch marks and replaced them with finer 4k scratches..
You would need a jewellers loop or microscope to see .
Personally I just do quite a bit around the 4k area and then considerably less there after.
Hope this helps.
I am wondering if 4K is your most coarse hone or if you are in fact moving up from a 1K. If you are moving up from a 1K then the answer above is pretty much the best answer. If you started at the 4K and you can look and see that the bevel is fully formed and the two sides make a perfect V for the full length then it is time to move up. Getting the perfect V for the full length is the foundation of your edge, and unless it is perfect the shave will not be perfect.
no the Question is when you moving up from 1K.
So, the job of the 1k bevel set is to reshape the bevels, so they are flat, from heel to toe, in the same plane, meeting at the edge fully, and at the correct bevel angle.
The 4k or any stone after the “bevel set,” is where you transition from shaping/grinding to polishing and straightening the edge.
It is the second most important stone and the quality of the finish it produces, will reflect on the finished edge.
Begin the 4k with circles and a bit of pressure, to remove as much of the deep 1k stria and finish with X strokes, to lay down an even 4k stria pattern. Any deep stria that reaches the edge, will cause you finishing issues, chips or weak edge, so spend as much time as needed.
Often new honers will move up, then see stria after the 8k. That is stria that was missed and a quick trip back to the 4k will clean it up.
The goal is to remove all the deep 1k stria, or at least, the deep stria that reach the edge. 60x magnification will help you see what is happening on the bevels.
Jointing the 1k edge and re-setting it on the 4k will also help in straightening the edge, which is the goal of all the stones, after a 1k bevel set.
For me, anything higher then 1k is all visual. I can hone without a loupe, but I don't like to. I set the bevel on the 1k and move on when it tests well. When it passes my bevel tests I don't do any more "testing" until the shave test. I mainly use Naniwa SS 5k after a Chosera 1k. The 5k SS leaves a pretty leaves a pretty smooth bevel so it's pretty easy to tell when ALL of the 1k scratches are gone. If the heel looks cleaner then the toe, the toe need more attention. When I'm certain that all of the 1k scratches are gone, I go the the 8K until all of the 5k scratches are gone. After the 8K, I'm done with the loupe and it's on to the finisher.
Thought I'd mention.
The reason I used too much pressure and as a result distorted bevels was because of watching tutorial videos.
It appears like the honers apply lots of pressure in the clips I watched at least..
Nower days I'm honing mainly blades that I have honed in the past , therefore they don't really need bevel set but i kill the edge and then it takes very little to bring it back.
I don't like to refresh razors because I enjoy honing and like to perfect the whole process from start to finish :)
After a 1k bevel set I move onto the next stone. What is the point of jointing the edge ? Isn't the edge straight when the bevel is set ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
If there are any chips stay on the 1k. If there is a wire or burr it can be removed with lighter strokes on the 1 k or even the next stone.
I use a 320grit stone for edge restoration so I may be missing the experience of doing the grunt work on a 1k but I really don't understand this idea of needing to "straighten" an edge.
I will say the edge looks a lot more tidy under the microscope if i kill the edge on my thumb nail after bevel set, then bring it back to bevel set with a few strokes.Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
That's because you are folding a burr over so its out of sight. As I said you can get rid of it with a few lighter strokes.Quote:
Originally Posted by JOB15
That makes sense ..Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
Weather I kill the edge post bevel set or not doesn't seem effect the end result ..
My edges are pure dynamite whatever I do lol :)
“My edges are pure dynamite whatever I do lol”
And that’s all that counts. Find a system that works for you, then perfect it.
If you change something, try to just change one thing at a time.
It is honing, removing microscopic bits of metal, to get a straight, smooth shaving edge. How you get there… is up to you.
Enjoy.
Maybe someone already mentioned this, but if you are using a Norton 4 white side/8 yellow side, one way to know when you are done with the 4K white side is that steel will not be releasing or darkening your stone or your water. That indicates that you are done on that size grit and it is time to progress to a finer grit. No microscope required. Good luck sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by vsmirnios
Mike
I've noticed that as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by MODINE
As simple as some may think, more than one guy has mixed up the sides of the 4/8 Norton or any un-marked combo stone.
Mike
Am I reading this right ? When the Norton 4k gets clogged up, you move to the 8k ?Quote:
Originally Posted by MODINE
I can't think of another reason why an abrasive stops cutting.
No sir. As you know the abrasive particles will not quit cutting but the efficiency will be diminished when there is less material to remove. An “indication” you reached the abrasive grits performance threshold limit is when less steel swarf juice shows up on the surface. Synthetic or natural stone / hones.
This can be easier to visually gauge at the mid-range level. The other methods outlined above work too, hopefully this is just another tool. You still have to make sure the entire edge is contacting the stone. The OP referenced a 4K stone in the opening thread and is a common question that comes up often. The 4/8 Norton was used as an example only.
Mike
Yup. This happens with sanding wood too. When the wood becomes very smooth for that level of grit, the paper is no longer removing "easy" ridges but is now trying to cut into a fresh flat surface. Even with a brand new piece of sandpaper. It will still cut into the wood and remove material but not as quickly as the ridges are all gone. I think this is what is happening while honing too. It doesn't stop cutting all together but it is slowing down as the scratches are smoothed out. Like you say, another sign. A more subtle way of determine the same thing is by feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by MODINE
Seems more an indicator of bevel polish rather than edge improvement. I'll have to experiment . Got a couple of post resto Iwasaki Tama chans on the bench to hone up.
I think you're right. Akin to removing scratches from previous stone.Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55