Honing Challenge

Ok first I don't know if this is the place to have this thread but I think it's right.

Recently I was challenged on my view of stones, in my opinion that in the right hands a 12k naniwa, will meet or exceed some of the " majic stones ", well Steve and Kyle put my feet to the fire. Here is my review of the razor Steve done for me.

Here is how I Conducted the test.
1. Same prep each day, shower, lather with MDC, no stropping first shave, then every day with 25/50 linen and leather for a total of 7 shaves to rule out a bad day, plus without being a braggart, my stropping can and does improve edges.
2. 2 pass shaves with light touch up buffing. WTG and ATG.
3. Alum post shave along with a splash of my favorite aftershave that will give you some burn if your shave is not good, Aqua Velva Blue ice.
so here it is, Steve your Jnat edge was very smooth, the sharpness was to say the least, would mow my beard down without any resistance. I feel the edge will give my Naniwa edge a run for the money. But My honest opinion is it was a tie. With the Jnat edge being a little smoother on the first shave than my other edge straight from the stones, but after stropping I did not see much difference. I tell you this your edge is very good and I Would put it in the upper escheleon. Great job, just not a conclusive improvement over my Synthetic. And please guys this is my opinion, and if I had a sensitive face, maybe the natural would have made more of a difference

Now for for a confession, the razor I sent you is my all time favorite shaver, and will take a edge like no other I have. And I sent it to you fresh from the hone of my guy, it was done on a 30k Shapton. So in a way I kinda played dirty. with that edge I get the best shaves every time. So I sent you a stacked deck, yet what you sent back held its own, Thank you for this challenge.

next up is Kyles edge starting tomorrow I enjoy my M500 Nichiri for a week, good luck Kyle.
Tc

Feel like I'm missing some context or backstory - who are Steve and Kyle?

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...-accepted.html
and the rest is just filler.

Good Sunday morning TC,

Thank you for testing my edge sir, I feel like peer review is something that helps you get better and I am glad to have your opinion - and a detailed and honest one at that. Based on your response to the first shave and the original challenge in posts 16 and 17 in the Shapton 15/16 thread, I'll consider that a 'win' in making a better edge than a Naniwa 12k because of your statement on smoothness.

A word about sharpness from a jnat person, I can certainly make edges that feel sharper than that one and are still smooth, but most of the time off a jnat at least, the sharper it feels the less sharp it really is. I do use HHT to test sharpness of a finished edge, and you can tell the difference between those 'bitey' edges and a super smooth one, the bitey edge just doesn't cut the hair quite as well. The difference is not much, but discernible to the hair and your shave.

I am a little surprised the edge wasn't as smooth after the first shave, but maybe there's an answer for that. You told me the deck was stacked, but simply trying to make an equal or better edge than another is not so much of a challenge. But if you don't hone you won't know... When I honed your razor, the edge did not 'come up' in the center. The bevel tested fine, but my secondary test, HHT after 5k did not show the center as sharp as the toe and heel. So I Sharpied the edge and found that it is indeed a little low on the bevel on the show side, but not on the non-show side - it's a little overground on the show side. It isn't a problem if you know it's there. The hone was not hitting the center of the show-side bevel properly and I used the corner of the stones and some strokes sliding the heel off the stone to bring it up. There's an image attached, and the yellow stuff is the 2.7 mil DuPont Kapton, which is apparently very, very, close to the 3 mil tape you said it had been honed with. So maybe try some strop strokes with the heel off the strop? IDK just some thoughts, but it should not lose noticeable smoothness that quickly I think. But hey, I've been wrong before and I can tell an edge with 4-5 shaves on it from a fresh edge so maybe you can tell.

Anyway, I encourage everyone who hones to get some periodic peer review regardless of your skill level, but especially if you are learning. Having a critique of your edge and maybe a better or different one coming back to compare with can be very helpful.

Cheers, Steve

Maybe I didn't say something right, no smoothness was lost after shave 1 only that my 12k straight from the hones, picked up a little more smooth after stropping, then both were smooth and sharp, hope that clarifies better, Tc

Yep, my mistake explains it all!

Cheers, Steve

This sort of proves a theory that I have. To me, you can only get a razor 'so' sharp and comfort is relative and subjective. It comes down to a compromise of sorts... either hone-wise or sharpness-wise. That's what makes this honing hobby so much fun.

As a friend of mine said, 'sharp is easy smooth is hard', or at least harder.

Cheers, Steve

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Originally Posted by kelbro

This sort of proves a theory that I have. To me, you can only get a razor 'so' sharp and comfort is relative and subjective. It comes down to a compromise of sorts... either hone-wise or sharpness-wise. That's what makes this honing hobby so much fun.

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sometimes a razor comes along that will have the combo of both worlds, those are the real keepers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mainaman

sometimes a razor comes along that will have the combo of both worlds, those are the real keepers.

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Agreed! And we spend our $$$$$ trying to find that next one that behaves that way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kelbro

Agreed! And we spend our $$$$$ trying to find that next one that behaves that way.

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It is fun right :)

I firmly believe that the razor plays into the equation. Some of my razors will not be comfortable on high grit above 12k and at 12k if you do your job it's going to be smooth and keen, but some steels after that seem to get harsh, I have the 20k and it's great on a few of my blades, but on others , I,m having to joint and even add a layer of tape to keep from having a harsh edge, but. Really don't know that much maybe it's me.

Update: Kyles edge has had 2 shaves on it, I don't know which stones he has but he knows how to use them, this razor is a Laser, if the edge holds up over the week I,ll have to say he
Made a believer out of me, I,ve noy had one guy get that much out of a razor . Tc

Ok the week is up, 7 shaves down and the results are in.

First thing I,m going to do is say I will not ever doubt that Kyle (prodigy) can't put an edge on with his Jnats. Winner Kyle !!!!!!:bow:bow:bow

Young man, the edge was smooth, keen and every shave was effortless. I will not say its the best edge I've had, but it's pretty darn close, I may have to have you try it on my go to razor.

So in a head to head test, my 12k will not come smoother than your Jnat. There. Said it!! This was fun,, but then again maybe it was that magical Raven strop, must be made out of Unicorn hide!
This edge was as smooth as some of the Zulu edges I've had and maybe actually much better than any Coticle I've had, Eschers are close,, but non the less a very respectable edge. :beer1:
Thanks Kyle, great job. Tc

Thanks for the review TC! I put everything I had into that razor and I could not be more happy.

I have an unknown mine, final polishing stone I bought from Garret. I was looking for a stone that was able to achieve the sharpest possible edges. Well, he delivered. This stone is purely blissful to hone on, and never dissappoints.

I knew as soon as I did one pass on the shave test that there was no way you could not like that edge. I've had the worst luck getting shave ready edges from stones that others truly enjoy. Coticule edges don't do it for me, synthetics were good, but not smooth enough for me, whereas the coticule would be too smooth and not sharp. I've had some decent jnats too, but this one is special.

Now the real dilemma TC, do you want to try an edge from my new maruka kiita? It might give my lime kiita a run for its money!
Attachment 248358
Attachment 248359

I'd be happy to try it, I couldn't be happier with this razor, I used it again this morning, I may use it the rest of the month! My 12k edge is not disappointing still, and like I said Steves edge was truly a great edge, it just didn't beat it conclusively. But your edge did. And even after a week of shaving my wire like beard, it's still taking whiskers off like a laser.

:tu:bow. Tc