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I would like advice on honing a razor. I don't have pictures, so I will have to describe it. The razor is a 5/8 full hollow. The razor has a wider bevel in the middle on each side like an s warp. The spine has a smile and the edge as well. The edge is close to being done in the middle with more work on the 1/3 near the toe and heel. Would I just use swooping strokes to finish the bevel or is that enough? The reason I am asking is I don't want to hone the smile out on the edge.
Thanks,
binder
Try adding a piece of tape to the middle of the spine and perform rolling x strokes...
Also ink the bevel to to see what's going on..
Good luck
Hard to say without pics. What do you mean, “The edge is close to being done in the middle with more work on the 1/3 near the toe and heel.”
Sounds like it needs some repair work, what is the condition of the spine wear?
You can hone the edge in 3 sections, toe, middle and heel, then use a rolling X stroke to blend the 3 sections into one bevel. Or just use a rolling X, but it sounds like, straight strokes have been used on it and honed the middle more than the toe and heel.
Some photos would really help to advise you better.
I used to just do the rolling x, then began using circles to set the bevel, once I got some practice at it. Doing it as Euclid said above, in sections. Gotta keep an eye on it though and try to stay consistent. The rolling x alone will take a bit longer, but is probably safer if you haven't done circles enough to be confident in your ability. Here are some extreme examples ;
Attachment 250004Attachment 250005
I marked the bevel and the bevel looks like it is closer to meeting in the middle than on the ends. The spine looks good. A little wear on one side: the half towards the heel. I think I'll try the tape on the middle and then I can concentrate more on the ends.
I think you should watch Glens video set on honing a smiling wedge. The wedge part does not apply but the strokes will be the same.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEtb9k3APYM
There are three parts.
Sounds to me like someone already honed some of the smile out. That's why the bevel is wider in the middle of the blade. The edge is no longer following the grind.Quote:
Originally Posted by binder
I worked on the razor for quite a while today. The profile looks better. I am using 2 layers of tape now without one in the middle; using the rolling x stroke. There is still some marker at the heel and toe. It takes a lot of time using light strokes. Using a 1K Norton
Yes, technically the spine is off the stone or part of the spine, depending on the amount of “rolling” needed,
But the spine and the edge directly across from each other, are always on the stone at the same time.
Ink will show you exactly how much English you need, then just keep repeating the action till the bevels meet and are even.
It sounds like the razor is in need, of repair, and without seeing the razor it is difficult to advise you what that is. If the bevels are not meeting you may need to use more pressure, but you may do more damage than you are repairing.
If you hone without tape on the spine, you will needlessly wear the spine and cause more problems, tape the spine, alter your technique.
What brand of razor is it? Post some pics so we can better advise you.
When you are working on a razor that does not have the bevel established, like ones that have had a lot of sanding and buffing or old antique store finds, it can take a while to get the bevel back. It is a different activity than regular honing. I do not usually get blades like that done all in one sitting.
Sorry I took so long to get back. I was working on the razor. I don't have a camera, so used my web cam to take snapshots. Hope they are good enough. I have been looking at this article:http://www.razorandstone.com - Sharpening thoughts for new honers.
In setting the bevel it says to mark the edge and you should be able to wipe the marker off in 3 strokes. Is this realistic? Maybe this is for a straight edge. Mine is a slight smile (about 1 millimeter or so). I have been trying to do this, but not successful( trying to use as light a pressure as I can and keeping the pressure even across the edge). Usually takes 5-10 passes to get it off. On the blade I'm working on I am having trouble getting it all off at the heel. I am using the swooping rolling x. Maybe I need another stroke for the heel.
How much pressure is needed?
On the top side when pushing the edge away there is a wider bevel for about half the edge starting in front of the heel. The other side has a wider bevel in the middle and slight hone where on the spine.
The razor is a full hollow about 9/16
The W.Bingham Co.
Cleveland
Made in Germany
On the other side it says Blossom
I think you will find that a narrow hone will help, and with practice you'll be able to do the same stroke on a wide hone.
3 strokes in a perfect world, no bad honing by someone else, and being an accomplished honer might be enough to remove a marker all along the blade, but we don't live in a perfect world, the razor is vintage and may have been less than properly honed by someone else and you may not have honed damaged smiling edges long enough to fix them in a few strokes (and I say that tongue in cheek). The easiest way to deal with this is taping the spine and working on a narrow hone. You don't HAVE to use a narrow hone, it's just easier to get it right when figuring the stroke out.... once you've "got it", you can do the same on a wide hone.
Don't have a narrow hone? If you use something like a Naniwa or a King water stone, you can use one side as a narrow hone. Just flatten it as you have done with the usual surface and make sure you round the edges so they don't dig into the edge of the razor if you are a bit off. Stand the hone on it's side and now you have a 1/2" to 3/4" narrow hone to use. It's a handy trick to have in your toolbox. The only hones that don't work are hones like the Coticules and Shapton Glass hones as they are a thin stone glued to a sheet of glass or slate stone, so the side is not really usable.
And lastly, sometimes the blade is slightly warped.... again, it's easier to deal with on a narrow hone.
Regards
Christian
So, the smile on that razor is so slight to be almost negligible, a normal X stroke will hone it just fine.
You should clean the razor of active rust, before you hone it, or you will contaminate your strop with the rust, which is very abrasive and will scratch your bevel. If you clean it after you hone it, you will ruin the edge.
Which hones are you using?
So it doesn't really matter if you get all the marker off. The next hone will also take care of it?
I tried to make the smile larger, but it didn't work out, but I think the spine isn't that much more.
I don't think I have active rust. I have a little black on the sides. Do I need to take that off? Would sandpaper work?
I am using Norton hones 1K, 4k and 8k
I also read in that paper I linked to use soapy water to hone. I noticed that the Norton 1k and 4k can be hard at times to get a smooth stroke especially if trying to use one hand. Will the soap help with this? I thought of trying it, but thought it would slow down the cutting. What concentration would I use?
Thanks
As Euclid said, the smile is almost negligible. Still there is a little bit there. How much marker are you putting on ? If it is up above the bevel it isn't going to come off. If you are only watching what is on the bevel a couple of strokes should remove it, if you are doing correct strokes. If a couple of strokes do not remove it you need to change your technique until it does.
Have you ever sharpened a clip point pocket knife ? At the end of the stroke, towards the point, you have to lift your hand and keep the bevel on the stone, following the curve of the blade.
Attachment 250517
This is basically like the rolling X referred to early on in this thread. No matter where you are from heel to point the edge and the spine are parallel on the hone. Here is an excerpt from the 1961 barber manual, a PDF file out of the SRP library that has illustrations and a description of honing a razor with the type of blade profile you've got. A profile that is preferable to a straight end to end profile I might add.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...t_-_Honing.pdf
The black stuff is rust, you want the blade as clean as possible. The majority of it will come off with 000 steel wool and WD40, you can go to 1,000 grit Wet & Dry sand paper and polish with any good metal polish.
If you do it now, then hone you will save the edge and your good strop.
You do want to set the bevel, make the bevels flat, in the correct plane and meeting on the 1k stone. Then just polish out the stria from each stone.
Read the first 3 post in the honing forum for more information.
Do not use soap with Norton hones, it will eat the stone binder and there is no benefit, use plain cold water, and tape the spine.
I probably already messed up my strop. Is there a way to clean it. I have been using old razors on it for a while.
Depends on what you mean by messed up. My main strop looks like 60 miles of bad road and I'm still using it. Mainly to avoid messing up those that still look good. A light sanding of divots that stick up, glue any flaps from cuts with contact cement. Strops are mighty tough critters. Post a photo and people will be able to give you an informed opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by binder
Yepp, no worries... my dad's strop (barber back when straight razor shaving was common) is full of sanding spots... and nicks..... Dad had a shop on the main drag of Winnipeg, his customers, back in the 50s, were not the types who would shave themselves.... they would stop by dads shop downtown and get their daily shave before going to work. If dressing the strop with sand paper was acceptable to him back then... I'm sure we can can accept it today.
Just because you nicked a strop, it's not ruined.... it just needs some tender loving care. It'll serve you for decades to come!
Start with a clean damp paper towel, give it a wipe and see what comes off. You can clean with saddle soap, you don’t need much and use water sparingly.
Problem with leather is once it is contaminated it is in for good. You can sand or scrape with a cabinet scraper to remove a thin layer of leather along with any contaminates.
But first polish your bevel, look at it with magnification then strop on it and see if the strop is scratching or polishing the bevels.
I was referring to Euclid440's comment on the rust being transferred to the strop. I don't see much on the strop. I think I almost have the bevel set. I'll be able to work more on it on the weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
