Putting an 'edge' on a blunt 'blank'

Hi all,
I purchased 4 Dorko 444 blade blanks, as I know that Dorko has a high quality metal and I thought I could put an edge on these and create some great scales. However, putting an edge on these has been problematic. For those that don't know what a 'blank' is, it's a blade that has not had any work on putting an 'edge' on it. Basically a virgin that is waiting for that grinding/honing miracle! The edge is rounded and harmless. So what I am looking for is not someone who can put a nice edge on a 'dull' blade, but someone who can actually work to 'finish' a non-existent edge. I can put a great hone on any blade. I need to get to that point.

Anyone know someone who can do this for me?

BTW, I have proceeded myself through a 200, 400, 800, and even put it up against my coarser grinder to set the proper 'edge', with no real luck. I've gotten one kind of close to actually doing some cutting, but don't want to F-up the rest until I run out of options!

Thanks all!

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Originally Posted by aleximus

Basically a virgin that is waiting for that grinding/honing miracle!

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I'm sorry, but I'm not clear on the state of your blanks. Are they fully ground and just need honing, or do the need more grinding?

Also, if you "have proceeded myself through a 200, 400, 800," then you no longer should have an edge that is "rounded and harmless." I say this because the point of honing is to make the bevels meet to form and edge and there would be no reason to progress up grits unless you had achieved some semblance of an edge at each step.

For a while there were a ton of Dorko 444 and other blades available, often in lots, that went for what seemed like pennies. The people that I know of that bought them all had the same thing to say about them. They had all been heat treated and still needed to be finish ground. I do not know of anyone who finished them off, but with all the people here and the number of blanks being sold at the time, I am sure someone has finished some up and will chip in at some point. Making the first bevel on a razor can be a bear.

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Originally Posted by RezDog

For a while there were a ton of Dorko 444 and other blades available, often in lots, that went for what seemed like pennies. The people that I know of that bought them all had the same thing to say about them. They had all been heat treated and still needed to be finish ground. I do not know of anyone who finished them off, but with all the people here and the number of blanks being sold at the time, I am sure someone has finished some up and will chip in at some point. Making the first bevel on a razor can be a bear.

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experience to put the 'first' bee on these blades. That
is what I am hoping someone can do for me. I can take it from there. Maybe there is a post that goes through this process, but I have not found that as of yet.

As I hope I made clear they are not in any way 'finished'. I pulled one blade and tried to go through whatever but it is still not what I hope for these blades. Yes, I did try and go through the process from 200 to 800, but it did not get me where I needed to be. I am hoping someone has experience to go from a 'blank' to an edge I can work with.

Yes, I progressed somewhat through the grits, but did not get the grind that I needed from the beginning. Therefore this particular blade is not set up to produce a fine hone, which I am capable of. What I need is the process from blank to 'honorable' blade. I did a trial and error, now I want to start over and learn the true process.

That would be 'honeable', not honorable! damn auto-correct!

I am curious how thick the blade is at the edge. When a blade is heat treated it is quite a bit thicker than it would be when you sharpen it. If it was ground to the finished thickness before heat treat, during the heat treat process it would crack ever time. They are left thick, heat treated and then finish ground. So I am wondering if your blade is ground down enough to warrant honing. It could need to be taken to a belt grinder and the finish grind put on it to get it ready. At this point with out knowing more I am kind of shooting in the dark. There is a thread called restoration honing that you may want to read through. Where are you? If your blade has not been finish ground and you try to put a bevel on it, you could be honing for a very long time in order to get the full bevel on it and the bevel is likely to be very very wide, and you should use tape or there will be nothing left of the spine by the time you get to an apex.

Yup. Pre-heat treatment the edge is somewhere between the thickness of a dime and a nickel.

They are called Blanks because they need to have the finish grind done

Some like the old Herder Blanks needed final Temper also

You need somebody that does Re-grinds or that makes Razors, the price of doing a final grind or a re-grind makes buying blanks a prohibitive adventure unless you own a Belt grinder and know how to use it...

Yes you can grind the crap out of the edge and perhaps get to a shaving edge, and keep in mind I am answering WITHOUT a pic, much like shooting without aiming I might be off target


PICS help get accurate info

As RezDog replied earlier, I believe it has been heat treated, but not ground down afterwards. The 'blade' at this point is of equal thickness below the spine to the edge, at which point it is indeed rounded. The blade most closely resembles a Faux Frameback. I have a bench belt 'sander', but not sure if this is what you are referring to when you say a belt grinder.

I am starting to come to the realization that this work is beyond me, and short of finding someone who can grind the edge down for me (which I would assume would not be a cheap endeavor) I will put these blanks in a drawer and move on. I am in Los Angeles.

Thanks for all the advice, it is most appreciated.

I am sending you a PM of some personal contacts that may be able to help as they re-grind razors. You can hash things out with them.

Thought I'd go ahead and send along some shots of one of the blanks. As you can see the blade itself is pretty thin already, but honing itself just isn't getting it done.

cheers

Attachment 254238

That will need a finish grind. Clever way to get your camera to focus on the end of the blade.

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Originally Posted by aleximus

As RezDog replied earlier, I believe it has been heat treated, but not ground down afterwards. The 'blade' at this point is of equal thickness below the spine to the edge, at which point it is indeed rounded. The blade most closely resembles a Faux Frameback. I have a bench belt 'sander', but not sure if this is what you are referring to when you say a belt grinder.

I am starting to come to the realization that this work is beyond me, and short of finding someone who can grind the edge down for me (which I would assume would not be a cheap endeavor) I will put these blanks in a drawer and move on. I am in Los Angeles.

Thanks for all the advice, it is most appreciated.

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What type belt sander & what size & grit are you using. Most makers here use 2" X 72" belts with a 1 to 2 HP motor powering it.

At the moment I only use the belt sander to shape my scales. I believe it is 3" by perhaps 36". As I haven't used it to grind metal I am open to suggestions, if even this sander is up to the job. Again I just use it to shape my scales, then move on to hand sanding.

And I have to say, a 2" x 72" belt suggests a far deeper commitment to the craft than I have confronted. Understand that I have restored maybe 40 or so blades, fashioned perhaps 30 scales from varying materials, from wood to bone to synthetic material. But this is moving into a whole new area that I was not aware I wanted to go when I purchased the Dorko blanks. But it seemed like an ambitious and good project to progress on to. I may have overstepped my experience level. That is quite okay. If putting these blanks in a drawer until I have the experience to move on these, then I will. I appreciate the guidance, as I appreciate everything I have learned on this site and from all of you 'Pros'! But I feel I need to maybe step back and take some time to allow my experience level grow. As one who has delved into a new love, I wanted to move as fast and headstrong into it. But I think I came up against something that maybe I need to shelve for later. I look forward to this, and am not sure how far down the road I am but the Journey is the reward!

Thanks all, I love the help given so freely on this site by the experts that exist here!

And of course I may need some new hardware to make this happen. That can wait as well. But I feel I've tapped into a lifelong addiction! I don't think I'm alone here! Nice to know there are others!

Where are you located mate? This will help you out for someone close by maybe,
Can be done with a home belt grinder but there is still a fair learning curve to get it right and would recommend not using your Dorko blanks to learn on

I am in Los Angeles. I have gotten a few references to do them for me, but would be very much interested in watching/learning from them! Who wouldn't? So if someone would want to do the work and allow me to watch and learn, of course not to compete but for personal enrichment, then that is worth time and money! It's all about the learning process!

And I hear your accent through your post! I love that!

Thanks! Appreciated.

Hi all, I just wanted to follow up here. I finally took my blank to the shop and followed some suggestions provide here. I started off with a new blank, not the one previously worked on.

So I started first on the bench sander, using the curved part of the front of the sander. I was able to sand down approximately 50% of the blade from the edge. I couldn't get any closer to the top as it started to sand down the edge. So I had a 'point now, but wanted to attempt to get the blade more of a straight line down to the edge. I decided the only way to do this would be hand sanding. After my fingers started cramping up I managed to smooth the transition at the point where the bench sander stopped. At this point I proceeded through the usual steps on my Buffer using 6 different compounds. So what I have now is a Faux Frameback, but the sides of the blade don't come absolutely smoothly down to the point. However there is plenty of clearance now that honing is possible and should be for many hones to come.

My next task will be to figure out a way to get a straight drop to the point from the back. Not sure how to do this given that both my bench grinder, sander, and my buffer rely on a curved grinding surface, which inherently keeps it from getting right up to the Frameback (see Pics Below). I may try and only use the very side of the top of my bench sander, using the flat top portion. This will require some very delicate handling. Other than that I am open to suggestions. BTW, the scales are faux ivory. I expect that by the time I have finished all 4 of these blanks the last will be the best. Cheers
Attachment 259007Attachment 259008

I think Geezer once said he ground one of these on an old Wen Hollow Grinder knife sharpener. Nobody says you have to hollow grind it. I would consider it a fun experiment

I just looked at one on EBAY. Seems I still have the problem of the curve not allowing me to get up tight to the spine.

It will be difficult without the same tool originally used. Most likely these were ground at the factory by hand using a double wheel grinder that was adjustable for center to center distance between the wheels. They would have used fairly small radius wheels to get up near the spine. See here:

https://youtu.be/BBoI1hmYfbs

Alternatively you can try a setup like this if you only have the usual one wheel sander:

https://youtu.be/apjtYokzgk0

Great videos! Very informative. LOVE that 2 grinder setup!
My only problem is that my blanks are Faux Framebacks, and as such the curve of the grinding wheels, even if very small, still won't allow me to get right under the Spine. That is okay though, I'll keep experimenting and see if I can't come up with a solution.Attachment 259102

That's how I grind my blanks before I heat treat.Attachment 259108

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Originally Posted by aleximus

Great videos! Very informative. LOVE that 2 grinder setup!
My only problem is that my blanks are Faux Framebacks, and as such the curve of the grinding wheels, even if very small, still won't allow me to get right under the Spine. That is okay though, I'll keep experimenting and see if I can't come up with a solution.Attachment 259102

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Sure they would, as long as the right diameter wheels are used. A radius is a radius. In many cases, multiple sizes of wheel were used on the same razor to get differing effects. Aside from all of that, they are razor blanks, and can be made into whatever grind you like.

This is done with an 1 1/4" wheel. It is a 6/8.
Attachment 259132

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Originally Posted by bluesman7

This is done with an 1 1/4" wheel. It is a 6/8.
Attachment 259132

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Is that a Blue grind? :D

With the 2 grinder method, or just one?

Wow, that's pretty great! I'm way out of my league here!!!

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Originally Posted by aleximus

Wow, that's pretty great! I'm way out of my league here!!!

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He is good:tu

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Originally Posted by bluesman7

This is done with an 1 1/4" wheel. It is a 6/8.
Attachment 259132

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That is really good ! :)

I remember 2 years ago at the Texas Razor Meet he showed us his original grinder which was very unique. Then he blew us away demonstrating how he used trig to calculate everything! :)

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Originally Posted by 32t

Is that a Blue grind? :D

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Yes it is.

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Originally Posted by eKretz

It will be difficult without the same tool originally used. Most likely these were ground at the factory by hand using a double wheel grinder that was adjustable for center to center distance between the wheels. They would have used fairly small radius wheels to get up near the spine. See here:

https://youtu.be/BBoI1hmYfbs

Alternatively you can try a setup like this if you only have the usual one wheel sander:

https://youtu.be/apjtYokzgk0

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Man, she makes honing a razor look easy in that first video.

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Originally Posted by aleximus

With the 2 grinder method, or just one?

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Single grinder.