Stainless razor giving me trouble

I have a beautiful Carl Rader 6/8 inox that I recently acquired but it needed to be honed.

I am not an expert at honing but I have been doing very well with my razor collection all have honed up very well and shave great comfortable and close.

This one however is giving me trouble.

Here is my progression:

Bevel set on king 1k

3k/8k synthetic stone (three guys brand)

#9 coti bout from TSS not marked for vein. Water only then finish under running water. I go by feedback and suction sensation and I felt like this one was ready.

Under magnification it looks ok however the bevel is a bit wider than I expected- it runs toe to heel and consistent, just not what I expected.

There is some hone wear but not excessive and nothing I haven't dealt with before.

I was thinking of taping the spine and starting over to see if I can get that bevel at a more acute angle. Am I on the right track?

For comparison I used the same progression on a dull (I mean flat dull so you could drag it across your finger and no cut dull) heljestrad 31 that I got off eBay. The exact same progression yielded a very comfortable shaving edge that gave me a BBS shave this morning.

I am stumped.

And the pic or the razor showing the spine and bevel are where ??? :)

That really would help us help you,,, but here is a funny fact a layer of tape Cannot hurt, it might not fix the problem but it won't make it worse :D

Ok sorry- here is a pic as best as I can get. Any guidance on my photography would be most appreciated so that I know how to post the necessary info :)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...783c7038af.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...aae6c3e6c9.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...33b2896be4.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6a14575cc2.jpg

Does this give enough info?

Yes it does and nothing really stands out as a reason that you are not getting a good edge

This thread might help with some ideas


http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...bing-over.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Yes it does and nothing really stands out as a reason that you are not getting a good edge

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I was careful to raise a good burr on both sides during bevel set and made sure to do enough x strokes on the 1k to erase the burr. I am still learning and don't have to do that too much anymore I am getting to where I can tell by looking and feeling if the bevel is set but went aggressive on this one to be sure.

I know that the bevel is very important and if I don't get that right further refinement is a waste of time.

How about if I return to the coti and spend some more time there? Or go back to the 8k and then coti again?

I also have a pretty nice C12k that is slow but has made some nice edges in the past.

Lastly, I have the lapping film I first learned on a year ago (still in good shape) 6um, 3um, 1um

I have a balsa strop with crox and feox sides

I strop on a Tony Miller 3" English bridle.

Sorry for the oversharing but very open to suggestions and guidance.

You NEVER need to raise a burr when honing a straight razor. If you create a burr you did it wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Utopian

You NEVER need to raise a burr when honing a straight razor. If you create a burr you did it wrong.

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Ok that's why I'm here. I picked that up from a member of another forum's videos.

So- when setting the bevel count strokes? Do x strokes flipping on spine till the bevel shaves arm hair?

Please elaborate :)

I won't know what success looks like unless I work through my failures!

YMMV
A stainless steel razor is more abrasive resistant than carbon steel. Tough to hone as you are familiar with carbon steel. It takes longer and you must check progress more often.
Some people just have to make videos...whether or not they have anything worthwhile to pass on. Check post count here and videos from the old timers.
~Richard

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sdm84

Ok that's why I'm here. I picked that up from a member of another forum's videos.

So- when setting the bevel count strokes? Do x strokes flipping on spine till the bevel shaves arm hair?

Please elaborate :)

I won't know what success looks like unless I work through my failures!

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I would not bother counting strokes. You have to keep honing till you have the bevel fully set. It might take a hundred strokes and it might take five hundred. The sharp edge is all that matters.

You can do x strokes, or chisel strokes, or circles or any combination as long as you finish with x strokes. If you are new to this you really should use tape so that you do not mess up the spine. If you use tape you will need to change it regularly when it wears and be aware that as the tape thins the honing angle changes with the result being that the edge lifts off of the hone. Fresh tape brings the edge back into contact.

This is a horrid video I did a while ago. It was a demonstration of setting the bevel on a razor using a FINISHING hone. This came about from a thread here and it certainly is not the normal or recommended way to set a bevel but it will give you some sense of the strokes involved when I set bevels. By all means don't watch the whole thing unless you are an insomniac but you can skip around and get a sense of how long it can take to set a bevel. In it I keep saying that it's almost there and then it's not. Delusion and optimism are helpful when honing but you can't actually move on from the bevel set until you have it right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_PuRbR95gE

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geezer

YMMV
A stainless steel razor is more abrasive resistant than carbon steel. Tough to hone as you are familiar with carbon steel. It takes longer and you must check progress more often.
Some people just have to make videos...whether or not they have anything worthwhile to pass on. Check post count here and videos from the old timers.
~Richard

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Richard, I posted my video and THEN read your comment. There is not a whole lot of "worthwhile" in there but I'm leaving it anyway!

put your location in your profile so we may further assist you, there may be someone down the street from you Tc

When it comes to pictures of the bevel set there is thread that shows quite well what you see through your loop. For the bevel set it is all about looking down on the edge. After that it is all about polishing the bevel.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...ggestions.html

When you try and shave with it as it is now what is happening?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

When you try and shave with it as it is now what is happening?

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It is not removing stubble like my other razors. Plenty of audible feedback as it is extra hollow, no tugging, etc. just not taking off the whiskers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tcrideshd

put your location in your profile so we may further assist you, there may be someone down the street from you Tc

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I have updated my location in my profile. I live in Sarasota/Bradenton area of Florida. I would really like to have a mentor if possible. I am a big believer mentor/mentee learning.

Hopefully you can get hooked up with someone for some one on one honing. What are you doing to test weather or not you are done with the bevel setting process? My guess is that the bevel is not fully set. Have you tried the thumbnail test, thumb pad test and arm hair tests? As Utopain mentioned earlier, stroke counts are pointless. You need to have a way to test weather or not the bevel is set and ready to move on to the next stone.

The hair on my arm is almost blonde and it reacts in a weird way to passing the blade close- some hairs cut others not and sometimes I have denuded a spot without realizing it. I know that sounds stupid.

I have used the "cherry tomato test" where the skin is split with only the razor's weight (works on grapes too) but lately my test has been to lightly run the blade over a patch of coarse skin on my index finger. If the blade bites, I assume the bevel is set.

I have only come upon this method after my original post and when I tried the stainless razor it did not pass.

I have since reset the bevel on my 1k taking more than twice as long with x strokes and it passes the finger test.

I finished the polish on lapping film (3m diamond film) 6um, 3um, 1um then strop.

Bevel looks like a mirror and I will try again to shave with it tomorrow.

My thinking is that I am just not good enough with the coti to finish the stainless on it.

My lapping film edges can be harsh so I might have to back it off if that is the case tomorrow.

I will report the results after tomorrow's shave.

My wild guess, take it for what it is...

You've got a king 1k hone, which is comparatively slow to other hones from what I read. And you're honing a stainless steel blade, which is abrasion resistant.

I'm thinking the problem you were having is that your bevel was really, really close - but just a fraction of a hair's breadth away from being set. I've created a few of these myself, and they seem to pass every cutting test except for the shave test. I even created one that passed the shave test - I still haven't figured that one out. At any rate, this would be less a problem with your ability with the coticule, and more so an issue at the foundation.

I'll go ahead and wager that if you spent a good amount of time on the 1K it's sorted out. My crystal ball is broken, so take that the same way you would the lucky numbers from a fortune cookie - with a healthy amount of skepticism.

I can see a few bits on the bevel that are less than shiny. Is the bevel really set?

Stainless steel is far more prone to forming burrs or wire edges than plain carbon steel - and they are considerably tougher to get rid of on stainless also, they can be very tenacious on some stainless alloys. If you raised one on both sides purposely, perhaps you didn't fully get rid of it.

I suspect perhaps he's following the Science of Sharp/Murray Carter method of honing. In both of those, you intentionally raise a burr at the edge:

https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com...-razor-honing/

The burr is later removed during the stropping phase using pastes. I can't say if this is 'right' or 'wrong.' But I can say that it is a bad habit, and what it's doing is covering over poor honing technique with good to excellent stropping technique. Which I feel is detrimental, as you'll never learn to hone properly by intentionally raising a burr to later knock off with stropping or a higher grit hone. In fact there's a good possibility this can cause problems when you find a razor that really, really wants to keep it's burr.

I suggest dropping the pasted strop and coticule from the regimen to help sort things out. OP, if your hones are half decent you should be able to strop on linen & leather and shave from your 8K edge comfortably. I don't know about the 3 guys brand, I don't have them and haven't read anything about it from a source I would trust. But assuming that it's around the performance of Norton/Naniwa/Shapton/King you should be able to get a good shave off the 8K. If you can't, then you need to drop back to the 1K or 3K and try again.

Once you get a decent shave off that add the coticule, see what happens. Then you can add pastes and whatever other bells and whistles you want. But there's no point polishing an edge that won't shave at 8K, so that's a great mid point to stop and do a shave test.

Also see here:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...ml#post1702758

There is the legitimate possibility that you HAD a good shaving edge off your coticule - then degraded it with the Chromox and Feox.

I shaved with the razor today and I can report success!

First of all- I want to thank all of the people who took time to respond. The solution for me was a combination of many of the pieces of advice given here.

Since this was my first stainless blade trying to hone I forgot that 1. All blades are a little different and vary with the speed they take an edge and 2. Patience is a virtue.

I went back to bevel set and spent nearly 3x as long on the king 1k as usual but I got it to pass my weird bevel test- gently drawing the edge over rough skin on the side of my forefinger sort of like I'm slicing lunch meat very thin. If I can feel it "bite" all along the blade the bevel is set. This seems to be more reliable for me than shaving arm hair.

I polished the edge on lapping film like I used to do when I first started honing. 6um, 3um, 1um then strop on my Tony Miller English bridle strop.

The resulting shave was a close 3 pass shave but a bit harsh like I remember. My coticule edges are much more comfortable but this edge certainly was SHARP!!

Now- should I try to mellow the edge or just let stropping mellow it as I use the razor?

I learned a lot through this process again many thanks to everyone for the suggestions. There certainly is a wealth of experience here!

Well now that you know it is sharp and has a good bevel you could certainly try to adjust that edge with either a ton of great stropping ora few water only passes on your coti.