Finish on my Bevel

I did some honing on 5 blades and I'm pretty happy with the outcome. The shave test passed with no pulling. Slid right thru the whiskers. :tu

Got to looking at the bevels and here is what I seen... Mirror finish with scratches still in it. This was the worst spot on the blade.
Attachment 259017
Honing was done with Norton 1K, 4K, 8K, Then Naniwa 12K. Then stropped with 50 passes on cloth and 150 passes on leather. I'm seeing a few deep scratches still in the bevel. In your opinion, should I have spent more time on the 8K to cut those scratches down a bit more? Or maybe more time on the 4K and 8K? Or do all bevels end up looking like this after the polishing with a 12K and its normal?

As you all know, I'm very new to honing so I'm looking for direction to get the best out of my honing. I'm very happy that I'm getting somewhere with the synthetic stones as with the Naturals I wasn't gaining any ground that I could tell. I'll figure those out too some day but for now I want to figure out what is normal or best when honing or what is standard or proper. Thanks for any directions ol' honemiesters of the SRP! :bow

So, the good thing is that none of the stria seem to reach the edge.

It is hard to say how, they got there, though the group on the right seem to be deeper, possibly 1k.

When you are learning, it is a good practice to alternate your final scratch pattern on your final finishing strokes, so you can better track your progress in removing the previous grits stria. I alternate from straight, 90 degree stria to 45 degree heel forward stria, so you can better track progress.

Additionally, with the 12k they are notorious for loading up, and that may be causing some of your scratches. So especially when learning to “perfect” your honing, once you are finished with a stone, give it a quick lap to refresh the face and remove any loaded up swarf, then do 10-20, very light pressure laps, to lay down the directional stria pattern, you want and put a final finish on the bevel and edge.

Also, it is a good practice to spend some extra time on the 3 or 4k, (transition stone) to remove all the deep 1k stria, polishing on the later and finish stones will go much quicker.

You don’t have to remove all the stria from a bevel, to get a good shaving edge, just the ones that reach and affect the edge.

Yea, which ones are those? When starting out assume they all are, with more experience you will know which are problems and which are not.

That the edge shaves well, is good but, still room for improvement, when looking at the edge it should be laser straight. The straighter, the smoother, light finish laps on a proper progression will get you there.

A year from now, your edges and shaves will be light-years better.

If you are happy with the shave that is all that matters.

In general you only need 10-15 strokes on the 8 and 12k hones.

The Naniwa 12k should be capable of producing a mirror finish on your bevel. When honing with a 4 stone sequence, it is necessary for the 4K to remove all 1K scratches. Then the 8 K has to remove all 4K scratches. Finally, the 12K has to remove the 8K scratches leaving an edge that has few, if any, scratches. If there are scratches left behind by the 1K or 4K hones, the 12K is too fine to remove them without a lot of effort.

Since you have a microscope. I suggest that you look at the edge after the 1K bevel set and then mark the worst part of the edge with a Sharpie and take a photo. After the 4K, go back and examine the edge at the same spot, again taking a photo. If the bevel was not set completely, you might need to go back to the 1K. If the bevel is OK, but 1K scratches remain, then go back to the 4K until the only thing remaining is 4K scratches. Take a photo of your progress.

Repeat the process using the 8K hone, stepping back to the 4K if needed, until all you have are 8K scratches. Again take a photo of your progress.

Then go to your 12K and remove the 8K scratches. If all went well, you should be close to a mirror finish. However, some people find that a mirror finish can be rather harsh. Many natural finishing stones produce a hazy finish that some people find to be more comfortable. It all depends on your face and beard. I have some razors that finish well on a Naniwa 12K and some that seem to do better on a natural stone.

I'm happy with the shave. But now I'm not happy with the looks just yet. Guess I'm just a picky kinda bastard. Ha. I want perfection and I want it now! But don't we all.
Thanks for the detailed info Euclid. I will give this a try. I understand what you are saying and it makes sense. As long as something makes sense to me I can normally get it. Its the stuff that is just magical that I don't understand. Like Natural stones and Nagura slurry, and then theirs the pyramid honing. Why go backwards? But it works.

So it is possible that those deep scratches (Stria, learned a new word) could be from as low as the 1K. changing the direction IS going to help narrow it down. Thanks!

Very cool that you are getting the honing thing down, Gasman-If your edges are giving you smooth shaves already, they can only get better if you take the experienced advice above.

One thing about the naturals: once you get that synthetic progression down pat (and it's virtually identical to mine and many others), then think about adding the "icing" of a smooth natural edge to the "well-baked cake" you achieved on the synthetics. While many newer honers are rightly-advised to stick to the predictability of synthetics, on which you can do more of a "formulaic" kind of honing per the many videos on the subject (think pyramid honing, counting strokes, etc.), adding a natural finishing step will really take your edges to a whole new level.

With a maxed-out Nani 12 edge (or even a Norton 8k) edge as a benchmark, probably the easiest natural to learn on (if you can find a good one) is a hard, glassy PHIG or "C12k" as it's sometimes called. They're pretty slow, though a slurry progression speeds things up if you need faster. I hear a nice Thuri or Escher gives up a killer edge pretty easily, though I don't really have any experience with one. A nice burnished translucent or surgical black arkie will leave a wonderfully-crisp and smooth edge; my favorite method with mine is to just sit and mindlessly do the hundreds of strokes it takes (on lather for me) while watching tv.

I seem to recall you getting a JNAT and some nagura stones? You might try maxing out a Norton 8k edge, and then doing a couple of the higher-level nagura slurries in a progression, finishing with a tomo slurry. I've gotten some great edges that way too. You seem like a very quick and enthusiastic learner, so I get the feeling you will be trying that or a similar route again soon. Let us know how it goes. Aaron

Thanks for the post Aaron.
I will dabble in the naturals soon but for now I'm just wanting to get the best out of the synthetics. I thought I had these synthetic stones figures out after having great results on 5 razors but one is just kicking my back-side. I've tried lots of different strokes and gymnastics but its kicking me down.. Guess I don't know as much as I thought I did. The edge feels nice and sharp, but after one pass on the face it looses it ability. I'll stop complaining now as I will get it figured or send it out. It's just starting to get to me.

When I get some extra time I might break out the natural and a tomo stone and give it a go on something that is finished on 12k already. Cant hurt. OK, I could screw it all up but at least I'll know I can fix it. ha. Thanks!