Honing a frown due to a warped blade

Anyone have any recommendations on how to hone a warped blade? Long story short, I received a Dovo Gentleman that came with a slight frown new from the factory. I sent it back to the vendor and, due to some fine print BS, ended up receiving it back at a significant discount. I am suspicious that the dealer knew it was warped and merely touched it up to knock down the frown without actually sharpening it.

The spine appears to be straight So, can I put tape on the spine which corresponds to the low spots of the blade in order to prevent uneven wear?

If the spine is straight then there should be no difficulty correcting it. You need to eliminate the frown by honing with the spine fully off of the hone by about a 45 degree angle.

Once you confirm the frown is completely gone, you can tape the spine in a normal manner, not in the corrective way you suggested, and hone with a rolling x stroke with the blade at a heel leading position. That is, position the blade during the stroke so that the blade is not perpendicular to the long side of the hone but it is instead at about a 45 degree angle relative to that long side during the x stroke. As long as you change the tape regularly you will be fine.

If the spine is straight but the edge side of the blade is warped you may end up with differing bevel widths, but that will not alter the functionality of the razor-- just its aesthetics.

Thanks Utopian, your response makes me feel a little better but I still have questions. If I get rid of the frown and re hone, the blade is still warped. While honing, won't one side of the blade want to smile and the other side want to frown all over again? Or are you saying that if I use X strokes and keep the blade at a 45 degree angle that that prevents a frown from reoccurring?

I think we might have a semantics problem here.

A warped blade references a blade that is bent so that if forms a very slight "C" shape. If you lay a warped blade on its side on a flat one, one side would be touching the hone in the middle and the two ends would be farther away. If you flipped that blade over, then the two ends would be touching the blade and the middle would be farther from the hone.

A smiling blade can be identified by trying gently to touch the full length of the edge to the flat hone while the spine is directly above the edge so that faces of the blade are perpendicular to the hone's surface. In that position, a smiling blade only will be touching the hone along the middle of the blades edge. A frowning blade will be touching the hone in to or more places but not making contact along the rest of the blade's edge.

Does this match your definitions?


IF a blade is warped and has a frown, then the removal of the frown will not eliminate the warp, but proper honing would allow the edge either to remain straight or, if desired, smiling. One side cannot be frowning while the other is smiling, any more than one side of the blade could be 6/8" wide while 7/8" wide on the other. The smile or frown is outlined by the edge profile of the blade.

I agree...I think we are getting hung up on poor communication (at least my poor communication.) What I meant was...with a warped blade, if I only honed one side and just kept honing one side then, instead of just an uneven bevel from one side to the other, I would end up with either a smile or frown depending on what side I am honing. At best, if I hone both sides evenly, I would end up with an uneven bevel?

Another way to describe it: On one side, only the metal on the toe and heel are being removed (smile). On the other side, only the metal on the belly is being removed (frown)

Will X strokes and honing at a 45 degree angle eliminate any issues a warped blade would have or would I still have a higher bevel on the belly of one side and a high bevel on the toe and heel of the other side?

If the spine is straight, it is not warped.

Are you trying to make the bevels even from heel to toe and on both sides?

I have no idea what you are asking, perhaps if you post photos….

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Originally Posted by Blamo

I agree...I think we are getting hung up on poor communication (at least my poor communication.) What I meant was...with a warped blade, if I only honed one side and just kept honing one side then, instead of just an uneven bevel from one side to the other, I would end up with either a smile or frown depending on what side I am honing.

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YES! I understand your point now. It was an even/or statement. I could not understand a smile on one side with a frown on the other but now I understand.

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Originally Posted by Blamo

At best, if I hone both sides evenly, I would end up with an uneven bevel?

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Yes, the result would be an uneven bevel. Wide bevels on the ends with a narrow bevel in the middle and just the opposite on the other side. This may not be pretty, but as long as there is a bevel that reaches all the way to allow the bevels to meet along the entire length of the blade, then you will have a perfectly functional shaving edge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blamo

Will X strokes and honing at a 45 degree angle eliminate any issues a warped blade would have or would I still have a higher bevel on the belly of one side and a high bevel on the toe and heel of the other side?

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You described the spine as being straight and yet the blade as being warped. This is possible with improper grinding but this is a much easier blade flaw to deal with. The spine is your guide and a straight spine will make honing this easier. The 45 degree angle will help you keep more of the spine on the hone. Are you familiar with the rolling x stroke? That really is going to be the solution to this. If you are unfamiliar with it, just say so and I'll add more detail.

:popcorn: Waiting for the X stroke explanation. This is going to be tough to explain. I need to learn this one a bit better myself.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...lling_X_stroke
This is from the Library and gives a good explanation with pictures :D

I like Dr. Matt's videos on warped blades & how to fix them. The "Tap & Wobble"test is explained in these videos & it is a easy & fast test to see if you have any problems.

Slawman

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Originally Posted by Slawman

I like Dr. Matt's videos on warped blades & how to fix them. The "Tap & Wobble"test is explained in these videos & it is a easy & fast test to see if you have any problems.

Slawman

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Yup...I actually watched those last night. Found it interesting that he said almost all new factory razors have a warp of varying degrees. I think I will wait a bit and continue working on my vintage smiler and Boker Silver Steel and leave the Dovo alone until I feel a little more confident.

That is a very good plan. Develop the skills with the easier ones and you will be better prepared for the harder one.

That video could be taken with a few large grains of salt. Tap and wobble or not, you need to do what the edge requires.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

That is a very good plan. Develop the skills with the easier ones and you will be better prepared for the harder one.

That video could be taken with a few large grains of salt. Tap and wobble or not, you need to do what the edge requires.

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What would you say this edge requires?

Attachment 260769

Attachment 260770

I don't see anything wrong with this blade from the photos. Is there some concern that you have about it?

Yeah...it's tough to capture the issue on a camera phone. The side with the logo has a tendency to want to lose metal at the belly. The other side, it's hard to see, is wearing more at the ends...you can see it more at the toe in the picture.

As the blade is turned, the blade looks wavy on the logo side.

It doesn't look like I can post videos unless they are already online somewhere. Let me see if I can pm you.

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Originally Posted by Blamo

Yeah...it's tough to capture the issue on a camera phone. The side with the logo has a tendency to want to lose metal at the belly. The other side, it's hard to see, is wearing more at the ends...you can see it more at the toe in the picture.

As the blade is turned, the blade looks wavy on the logo side.

It doesn't look like I can post videos unless they are already online somewhere. Let me see if I can pm you.

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Are you honing this razor with straight up and down strokes or are you using a rolling X stroke? The reason I am asking is that if you have a razor with a warp/twist and hone straight up and down you will tend to wear away the center of the blade more than the ends and wind up with a frowning blade. I think I can see a very slight frown on the blade by using a straight edge against the screen on your photos of the blade.

Bob

Your description of the edge wear is that of a warped blade, very typical. The logo side is convex and the back side is concaved.

Though your edge bevels do not look, that bad in terms of bevel width, (the warp is slight), that razor will never have perfectly even bevels, but that is not an issue, it will still shave.

You have honed an S shaped edge, from either too much pressure or honing with a straight stroke and removing material at the high spots.

More importantly, it appears you are honing on the stabilizer, on both sides and that will keep the heel half of the edge off the stone.

Reshaping the heel, will move the corner of the edge, forward and well away from the stabilizer.

Bread knife the edge straight and use a rolling X stroke, rolling up, (slightly) on the convex side to hone the heel and toe and rolling down with the heel off the stone to hone the middle on the concave side.

On the convex side make sure the heel says on the hone, to about the half way point or it will not get honed. Watch the stabilizer.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

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That video could be taken with a few large grains of salt.

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^ This plus 7.

Blamo, definitely do what BobH recommended with rolling x strokes. Any slight grind issues, whether variable thickness or a warped blade, can be dealt with by the rolling x stroke. Now, that does NOT necessarily mean that you will end up with uniform bevel widths but the edge can be just fine.

Also, do you know how to determine whether or not you have a frown in the blade? You gently hold the blade perpendicular to the lapped flat surface of the hone in front of bright light. In this position you can see the contour of the edge by the light coming through the gap between the edge and the hone.

Thanks for the advice fellas. Yes, I started honing this razor straight on with no angle at first until I noticed uneven bevel wear. The razor actually came with a slight frown from the factory and I took pictures of it to send to the vendor. (See below)

Attachment 260819

Ok, I will give all your advice a go.

So the first step will be to correct the frown.

Lift the spin off of the hone until it is at 45 degree or higher. Then do 15 to 20 back and forth strokes on one side of the blade and then do the same on the other. Continue on alternate sides until the frown is gone. However, as the frown is nearly gone, you can go ahead and gradually lower the honing angle.