My next honing challenge- chipped bevel

Coming off my latest honing success- a pretty severely warped blade- I am ready to take on my next honing challenge...a chip (as seen below in pics)

This is an otherwise really nice Genco razor that I recently won off eBay and upon cursory examination looks pretty good- spine is straight very little honewear no frown/smile/toe wear.

This is the biggest chip I have dealt with so far so want to make sure I do this right.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...bf9a750a71.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...45906d56d7.jpg

~Grasshopper

Gssixgun has a flawless video on youtube using the bread knifing procedure to remedy this. You'll want to attack this in such a way to keep a slight smile to the blade removing equal amounts of material from both sides of the blade.
Very nice razor you have there, minimal hone wear.:beer1:

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Originally Posted by Aerdvaark

Gssixgun has a flawless video on youtube using the bread knifing procedure to remedy this. You'll want to attack this in such a way to keep a slight smile to the blade removing equal amounts of material from both sides of the blade.
Very nice razor you have there, minimal hone wear.:beer1:

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Great! I will definitely check that out- I have heard of that procedure but want to be sure I do it correctly too nice of a razor to trust to trial and error.

I have another Genco that I absolutely love so I was really glad to find this one for a great price.

a little chip like that will come out nicely using that technique. It is only a small challenge. One thing for certain, if you go to regular honing when the chip is almost gone, then once you are sure you have honed past that chip the the bevel will definitely be set.

Yes! That is an awesome by product of honing past a chip, your done....:beer1:

It looks to me like there is no bevel.
By the time you create one that chip will be gone..

The Genco's come up great and you should hone it out easy with just the 1k quick enough

@JOB15 there is no bevel.

I think I will start by putting a bevel on with shapton pro 1.5k and see where I am.

If I was going to breadknife wouldn't I do that before I set the bevel?

I am thinking going as conservative as possible to save steel? Is it a 6 of one half dozen of the other type of situation?

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Originally Posted by Sdm84

@JOB15 there is no bevel.

I think I will start by putting a bevel on with shapton pro 1.5k and see where I am.

If I was going to breadknife wouldn't I do that before I set the bevel?

I am thinking going as conservative as possible to save steel? Is it a 6 of one half dozen of the other type of situation?

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If it were me, that chip is relatively small so I think I'd give setting the bevel a go first. You may well find that by the time bevel is set the chip will be gone. Even if it there still is a very tiny amount of the chip still showing after the bevel is set the next hone in the progression will likely finish it off. That is a very conservative way of doing it that will remove the least amount of steel but will take longer.

Either way will work so the choice is yours.

Bob

I'm with BoB! I would set the bevel as a first step to see where that takes me. If I can remove the chip with the bevel setting, I have removed less steel. Less is more, as always!

But practising breadknifing is never wrong, if you want to improve your honing skills... ;)

Jacke

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Originally Posted by Sdm84

@JOB15 there is no bevel.

I think I will start by putting a bevel on with shapton pro 1.5k and see where I am.

If I was going to breadknife wouldn't I do that before I set the bevel?

I am thinking going as conservative as possible to save steel? Is it a 6 of one half dozen of the other type of situation?

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Yes, if you were going to breadknife it out you'd typically do that first. Otherwise you'll just wreck the bevel you cut and have to re-do it anyway.

2 different roads, end result should be the same. If I opted to bread-knife that out, I would probably stop before the chip was completely removed then sneak up on the last little bit during bevel setting. Same amount of steel has to go regardless of which way you choose to do it. You just have to remember not to focus in on the spot with the chip and wear that side more than the rest. Equal attention all along the edge, and be careful not to do more than necessary.

Here are some "before" pictures of the bevel and the chip. I am playing around with my new usb microscope and it is pretty good! Not hard to use at all and for $30 can't go wrong. I believe that the lower magnification is roughly 60x and the higher magnification is about 250x

Attachment 260231Attachment 260232Attachment 260233Attachment 260234

Nice photo's! What USB camera is it? My 5mp can't do that last photo you shot. I'm jealous, I must have one immediately!:borg:

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Originally Posted by Aerdvaark

Nice photo's! What USB camera is it? My 5mp can't do that last photo you shot. I'm jealous, I must have one immediately!:borg:

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LOL! You actually have a better scope than I do! Mine is just 2mp but it is pretty slick- I was surprised. Here is the link: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I really think it will help analyze my honing and of course I can post better pictures here for you guys to help.

That might be the best mine will do. How are you zooming in so far to get that tiny chip? My Celestron 5mp is turned up all the way. No enhancements other than using my own lighting. I can't see your bevel....wait a minute, I thought your entire photo was your bevel. If that is your bevel close to the edge then that is a huge chunk out of your blade. I think I judged your photo wrongly...
https://s2.postimg.org/ncnw7gy49/17324215451411.jpg

After watching gssixgun's video on breadknifing- I set to work. I breadknifed on my DMT8C at 90 degrees, then 60 degrees, then 45 degrees until I was close- I sort of went by intuition as to honing vs. breadknifing strokes (as he says in the video) when I got what I thought was pretty close I went to 3 layers of tape, circles 20 at a time until I was closer, then same with two layers till it was just barely there and went to 1.5k shapton pro for circles/x strokes.

Went to the 120x handheld micro and still saw it so continued on the 1.5k until I couldn't see it in the 120x. Time for the USB microscope. At the highest resolution it was still noticeable, so I kept going x strokes on the 1.5k. Here is the final result:Attachment 260463Attachment 260464

You can see I marked the area with sharpie- in the higher magnification the black blob is the sharpie. There is all kinds of dust on the bevel from the towel I was using to wipe off the blade after honing, but you get the idea.

This was harder than I thought gssixgun makes it look so easy!

I am going to hone it up the progression and shave with it tomorrow. We shall see.

Thanks for all of the help- I am sure I'll be back with questions on my next honing challenge!

Well- more information. Honed on shapton pro stones 1.5k, 5k, 8k, 12k then 300 or so laps on my newly acquired (and already partially burnished- more info in my other thread in hones forum) black arkansas.

Please feel free to post observations- I am here to learn :)

~Grasshopper

1st picture is shapton pro 12k, second picture is after arkansas and stropping:
Attachment 260478Attachment 260479

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Originally Posted by Sdm84

Great! I will definitely check that out- I have heard of that procedure but want to be sure I do it correctly too nice of a razor to trust to trial and error.

I have another Genco that I absolutely love so I was really glad to find this one for a great price.

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That's not a Genco, Its a Geneva Cutlery, Pyramid, fine shavers these are, set the bevel and that tiny chip will be history.

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Originally Posted by Sdm84

Well- more information. Honed on shapton pro stones 1.5k, 5k, 8k, 12k then 300 or so laps on my newly acquired (and already partially burnished- more info in my other thread in hones forum) black arkansas.

Please feel free to post observations- I am here to learn :)

~Grasshopper

1st picture is shapton pro 12k, second picture is after arkansas and stropping:

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The edge looks better on the first pic, that black Arkansas stone burnished?

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Originally Posted by Martin103

The edge looks better on the first pic, that black Arkansas stone burnished?

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Well....I have started the process. It is somewhat reflective at this point. I plan to work on it every night until it shines like glass but wow lots of elbow grease to do!

Shaved with the Geneva razor finished on the Arkansas today- it was a VERY sharp edge and VERY keen. Almost had a dangerous quality to it- only took 2 passes to erase the stubble to my satisfaction but I did nick myself which is pretty rare for me nowadays. I attribute this to operator error.

Unless I have something going wrong with my edge (wire edge, toothy edge, etc. which I did not see) I would say that this is the keenest edge I have produced by far.

I will continue to burnish the Arkansas and adjust my technique to see if I can get it to be smoother.

Any tips or pointers on making it smoother?

“Any tips or pointers on making it smoother?”


Glad it shaves for you, but goes to show, an edge does not have to be perfect to shave.

There is a lot of room for improvement. It looks like the bevel was not fully set on the 1k. After fully setting the bevel, the goal is to make the edge as straight as possible, for comfort/smoothness.

The easiest way for a new honer to do that, is to remove all the stria from each of the previous stones in the progression.

You should be able to get an excellent shave from the 12k, then experiment with the Ark.

Here is a post with good micrographs, of what to look for, and what a fully set bevel looks like, (Post 51). Second try at Honing,

Good work, take your time, watch your pressure on your finishing strokes and build the edge, one step at a time. Your edges and shaves will continue to get better.

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

“Any tips or pointers on making it smoother?”


Glad it shaves for you, but goes to show, an edge does not have to be perfect to shave.

There is a lot of room for improvement. It looks like the bevel was not fully set on the 1k. After fully setting the bevel, the goal is to make the edge as straight as possible, for comfort/smoothness.

The easiest way for a new honer to do that, is to remove all the stria from each of the previous stones in the progression.

You should be able to get an excellent shave from the 12k, then experiment with the Ark.

Here is a post with good micrographs, of what to look for, and what a fully set bevel looks like, (Post 51). Second try at Honing,

Good work, take your time, watch your pressure on your finishing strokes and build the edge, one step at a time. Your edges and shaves will continue to get better.

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Thank you! I thought for sure the bevel was there after taking out the chip but I did breadknife so it was completely dull.

I see the ragged edge in my photo I will compare to the photo you referenced. That must have been the "dangerous" feel I referenced earlier. I am determined to get this right!

It is common to have a bit of trouble setting a bevel, after bread-knifing or completely removing an edge for repair. The repair site also may have damaged steel under the chip.

So, once you have set the bevel, and are absolutely certain the bevel is set, by looking straight down on it, work on straightening the edge before moving on to the next stone. Try to get the edge as straight as possible, jointing the edge lightly and resetting the bevel with light strokes, helps. Usually 10-15 laps will easily reset it.

Then on your next stone, remove all the deep 1k stria with sets of 20 circles. Once all the deep stria is gone, then lay down an even stria pattern with X strokes and work on a straight edge again.

If you fully set the bevel, and remove all the 1k stria the rest of the polish will go easy and quickly.