JNAT Nagura -- Tenjyou vs Mejiro (vs Koma)

Hello, everyone.

I've been experimenting with my new Nakayama Asagi (Thanks, Aaron!) and collecting a few extra nagura stones.

I've read several times that you can use EITHER the Tenjyou OR the Mejiro stone between the Botan and Koma/Tomo stages, and that using BOTH is unnecessary. Can this statement be fairly compared to the idea that you can use EITHER the Naniwa 3K OR the Naniwa 5K between the Naniwa 1K and the Naniwa 8K stages, and that using BOTH is unnecessary? (From my own experience with Naniwa Super Stones, I find that the 1K > 3K > 8K progression is more than sufficient for a great shaving edge.) Or is there more to it then that? (All things being equal, that is. I'm aware that not all Tenjyou are the same, and that some Tenjyou may be even finer than some Mejiro.)

While my main question is about the interchangeability of Tenjyou and Mejiro nagura, please feel free to comment on the interchangeability of Mejiro and Koma too.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Chris

These are all natural stones, and the answer can only be based on observation of the results you get with your particular stones. Experimentation will show you how each stone cuts and what the resulting stria look like. You can then determine the order in which they should be used and which, if any, you can omit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sqzbxr

These are all natural stones, and the answer can only be based on observation of the results you get with your particular stones. Experimentation will show you how each stone cuts and what the resulting stria look like. You can then determine the order in which they should be used and which, if any, you can omit.

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True. I agree. However, I'm not asking about my particular stones. I'm asking what others have experienced with their particular stones and JNAT/nagura progressions. I apologize if I was unclear about that.

Thanks for the reply.

Regards,
Me

I'll repeat my answer, exchanging your with my. The only generalizations one can make with the broad variety of toishi and nagura are very broad ones. And these will be true or false depending on your particular stones. There are no formulas or constants in honing with naturals; only variables, observation, and experience.

I understand. Thank you for your time.

Regards,
Me

What I'm experimenting with is using the botan and tenjyou on my prefinisher, then switch to my finisher and use the mehiro, koma, and tomo to finish with. Haven't done it much yet, but like results so far

A member here jnats, taught me to go in alphabetical order Boton, Mijiro.Tenjyou. The one out of order is Koma. He also stated that Asano stamps and not the faked ones give you providence. Without knowing your nagura, it hard to say. Definitely Boton before Koma. Play jump straight from Boton to Koma and test. Mostly have fun and report your findings

For me, using Tenjyou and Mejiro - in that order - is absolutely necessary. Tenjyou is the coarser stone, so it comes after Botan. As mentioned, there are no easy rules with naturals, just gotta try.

And then… there is technique… and steel.

With naturals, experiment… find what works on specific razors then perfect your technique.

I dont have Koma yet, but everything I've read suggests that Mejiro and Koma are different. In my mind, the logic goes like this. People have omitted Koma and I've been honing without it for years. I think sometimes, on some razors, maybe 2 rounds of Tomo do what Koma might do in 1 round.... maybe?? I don't know. I know I cannot (will not) omit Mejiro - there is a notable difference in the edge without it say, going from Tenjyou to Tomo, the same way I would go from Mejiro to Tomo, i.e. not adding additional rounds of Tomo to compensate for the lack of Mejiro.

So what this means is, as with synthetic stones, if you skip a step, the next step will take more effort.

I don't use any synthetic stones finer than 1K, but I am fairly certain, going 1-3-8k is a bit slower than going 1-3-5-8k.

Going 1-5-8k is probably the same in terms of effort as going 1-3-8k, with the difference being in former case, the 5K is doing more work, and in the latter it is the 8K.

For me, Koma definitely makes a difference. I understand that the main reason for skipping the Koma has to do with its popularity with sword polishers, leading to its relative scarcity and subsequent high price. When I need to touch up a razor, I bring it to shaving sharp using Komo on my pre-finisher, and then refine it on my finisher first with soft kiita tomo slurry and then hard asagi tomo slurry followed by pure water. Progress is monitored by feel, the sound, and by watching the behavior of the slurry/water.


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You can use either mejiro or tenjio, provide that either is good enough to get the job done.
If you do not have one with sufficient cutting power, just do the dilution several times. The bigger issue would be if the tenjio or mejiro is not uite fine, i.e it does not break down as finely. Then the load falls on the koma, if it is of good quality it will take care of business.

As far as synthetics, 3 to 8k may require more work on the 8k, depends on what you are using.

Lots of variables.

I'll add my thoughts.
I use all 4 Asano Naguras because I enjoy using them and the end results are magnificent :)

A gradual progression must be better than an abrupt one in some respects . ( saying that , I go 1/5/10k Naniwa, with no issues)

I have quite a few Naguras but prefer the big soft white ones , they are alluring to me.

Botan and Koma are my favourites...