Honing practice today- what have I done here?

Fooling around with different techniques today- and something strange (for me) happened. This is a micrograph after bevel set on a 3k Naniwa Pro stone, but instead of cleaning the stone off after I lapped it I left slurry on the stone and did x strokes like I would on a Jnat. To me this looks like a Jnat edge?

I am progressing to 5k now and going to try the same thing, but I was going to check with the wisdom here to see if I'm just wasting my time here or if I can use this as a technique?

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You say it's a bevel set - does it pass your bevel set tests? Does it shave hair at skin level from heel to tip? If so, you may be able to move forward. However, slurry is normally used to enhance cutting speed/efficiency, and it is common practice to follow up the slurry with plain water and finishing strokes to get the cleanest bevel with the shallowest stria possible before moving to the next step of the progression. Also, your photo appears to show a slight change of shade and/or texture right behind the edge, which may indicate that you are not honing all the way to the very edge. Again, does it pass all the tests for a fully set bevel? I myself would not consider that a finished bevel from a Naniwa 3k.

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Originally Posted by sqzbxr

You say it's a bevel set - does it pass your bevel set tests? Does it shave hair at skin level from heel to tip? If so, you may be able to move forward. However, slurry is normally used to enhance cutting speed/efficiency, and it is common practice to follow up the slurry with plain water and finishing strokes to get the cleanest bevel with the shallowest stria possible before moving to the next step of the progression. Also, your photo appears to show a slight change of shade and/or texture right behind the edge, which may indicate that you are not honing all the way to the very edge. Again, does it pass all the tests for a fully set bevel? I myself would not consider that a finished bevel from a Naniwa 3k.

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Does this look better? I saw that there was quite a bit of honewear on the spine, but it was pretty even so I used two layers of tape and re-set the bevel on the 3k Naniwa Pro. The edge now shaves arm hair at skin level from heel to toe. Move on?

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Yes, I would say so. The main thing to remember is to check along the entire length so you won't have any surprises further on. Looks nice!

The problem with using a heavy slurry that does not break down, is it beats up the edge.

And why are we honing the bevel?

Oh, yea to get a straight edge… Whatever you use to set a bevel, try to get the edge as straight as possible.

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

The problem with using a heavy slurry that does not break down, is it beats up the edge.

And why are we honing the bevel?

Oh, yea to get a straight edge… Whatever you use to set a bevel, try to get the edge as straight as possible.

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Lol- you are right as usual! I am determined!

After making sure the blade shaves hair from heel to toe off of each stone, making sure everything looked good under magnification I was rewarded with my FIRST CONSISTENT HHT3!!

This is with my wife's very fine hair :)

I am doing some research on what a HHT4 is I may be close. Unfortunately my high frequency hearing is shot so I can't hear a "ping".

Here is the final result after stropping- this edge passed HHT3 with flying colors using my wife's very thin hair. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE ACHIEVED THIS! I am still trying to understand the difference between 3 and 4 but the HHT was so strong it might be close? Unfortunately my high frequency hearing is shot- so I can't hear "pings and tinks".

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Too try and squeak a bit more from your edge, strop on linen and leather, do a quick lap of your finish stone to get a clean stone face and do 10 very light X strokes.

Strop on leather and give it a try again.

HHT is very subjective, and may not translate to the shave. I look at the edge, straight down on the edge, with magnification, looking for any reflections or imperfections.

HHT will not pick up a microchip. Nice straight edge.

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Too try and squeak a bit more from your edge, strop on linen and leather, do a quick lap of your finish stone to get a clean stone face and do 10 very light X strokes.

Strop on leather and give it a try again.

HHT is very subjective, and may not translate to the shave. I look at the edge, straight down on the edge, with magnification, looking for any reflections or imperfections.

HHT will not pick up a microchip. Nice straight edge.

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Agreed - still some deep striations on the bevel, you want to get that so you can see yourself smiling on that bevel....mirror clean.....:D

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Originally Posted by Phrank

Agreed - still some deep striations on the bevel, you want to get that so you can see yourself smiling on that bevel....mirror clean.....:D

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I think those deep striations are left over from the lower grits even though I am using less pressure and torque. It seems that either I am not getting the technique right or I am not spending enough time on my 5k and 8k to polish everything out.

I am participating in a razor exchange with another member and he was curious about my Lakeside barber hone, so this edge is after the barber hone.

I realize that barber hones are for touchup, but the Lakeside is extremely fine.

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Originally Posted by Sdm84

I think those deep striations are left over from the lower grits even though I am using less pressure and torque. It seems that either I am not getting the technique right or I am not spending enough time on my 5k and 8k to polish everything out.

I am participating in a razor exchange with another member and he was curious about my Lakeside barber hone, so this edge is after the barber hone.

I realize that barber hones are for touchup, but the Lakeside is extremely fine.

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I defer to Euclid here, but one thing I make sure I do whatever stone I'm working on, is the last set of 10 laps I make sure are super light strokes.

So is the edge in the pic off the 8k or the barber hone?

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Originally Posted by Phrank

I defer to Euclid here, but one thing I make sure I do whatever stone I'm working on, is the last set of 10 laps I make sure are super light strokes.

So is the edge in the pic off the 8k or the barber hone?

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It is off the Lakeside barber hone. Two different angles for lighting.

Yes using a light slurry works especially on the Naniwa SS

Here is an extensive thread about it from years ago

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...iwa-users.html

The problem I have had with barber hones, is that the grit is inconsistent and your stria pattern has those random deep stria. Some will shave well though.

Compare the 8k bevel to the Lakeside and see if the pattern and the edge are better. I doubt that the Lakeside is higher than 8k, but the edge does look straight.

I generally remove all the stria from each grit with each stone, but you don’t have to. You only need to remove all the Deep stria that end in a chip at the edge.

For new guys, I recommend removing all the stria with each stone, it just removes one more variable for them and ensures that they are honing to the edge. I try to get the edge as straight as possible at each stone, usually that means a few cleanup laps on a fresh stone face. I either do a quick lap with a diamond plate or use a slurry stone to clean and smooth, then rinse clean and hone.

Which 8K are you using?

HHT aside, how does it shave?

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

The problem I have had with barber hones, is that the grit is inconsistent and you stria pattern has those random deep stria. Some will shave well though.

Compare the 8k bevel to the Lakeside and see if the pattern and the edge are better. I doubt that the Lakeside is higher than 8k, but the edge does look straight.

I generally remove all the stria from each grit with each stone, but you don’t have to. You only need to remove all the Deep stria that end in a chip at the edge.

For new guys, I recommend removing all the stria with each stone, it just removes one more variable for them and ensures that they are honing to the edge. I try to get the edge as straight as possible at each stone, usually that means a few cleanup laps on a fresh stone face. I either do a quick lap with a diamond plate or use a slurry stone to clean and smooth, then rinse clean and hone.

Which 8K are you using?

HHT aside, how does it shave?

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I am using a Shapton Pro 8k (all my synthetics are Shapton Pro except for my 3k which is Naniwa Pro (chosera)

Thanks for the insight on the barber hone I will keep it in mind as I learn.

This was only an experiment for our razor exchange we are trying out different things and analyzing the results. Trial and error with feedback.

It is really hard to tell if you are really getting improved edges or just convincing yourself you are because you bust your butt working on it.

Honest feedback from another shaver is helpful.

I only have about 150 straight shaves total in my experience so far so I don't have that to draw upon. I am competent shaving but I know that my developing technique sometimes gives me a false read even on the professional edges.

I really need to focus on a better understanding of stropping now- I feel this is a weak area for me that is hindering my honing progress. Seems like it is counterintuitive to work in improving honing skills when I might be knocking the edge back with my stropping.

Does this make sense?

The Shapton 8k is a solid 8K, I doubt the Lakeside is finer.

Absolutely, stropping is often underrated. Proper stropping can dramatically improve an edge.

A clean strop is also a big plus. I believe most strops have airborne dust on them or grit from stropping razors that were not clean. All this stuff can scratch a bevel and edge.

Different leathers will leave different finishes, as will different “linen”. And then there is technique. As your stropping improves, so too will your edges.

Additionally, when using tape, make sure to replace the upper layer of tape when doing your final laps.

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

The Shapton 8k is a solid 8K, I doubt the Lakeside is finer.

Absolutely, stropping is often underrated. Proper stropping can dramatically improve an edge.

A clean strop is also a big plus. I believe most strops have airborne dust on them or grit from stropping razors that were not clean. All this stuff can scratch a bevel and edge.

Different leathers will leave different finishes, as will different “linen”. And then there is technique. As your stropping improves, so too will your edges.

Additionally, when using tape, make sure to replace the upper layer of tape when doing your final laps.

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I just purchased a SRD modular paddle strop on the BST will this help me improve my edges? I have two hanging strops and one linen component but I was going to experiment with different techniques and pastes, sprays, etc.

Be careful with paddle strops, most new stroppers use too much pressure stropping. If you use too much pressure with a paddle, you can easily break off the fin and get a jagged edge.

I use paddles for tools and knives, hanging strops for razors.

proper stropping will improve your edges,, not so much the strop itself as long as they are quality leather strops and clean. learning to strop properly should have come before honing, then you would not be concerned over "HHT" which means little to shaving. the SRD modular is a good system and as long as the components are kept clean and dust free the edge will be fine as long as you do your part. STROPPING is the most important aspect o edge maintenance tc

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Originally Posted by tcrideshd

proper stropping will improve your edges,, not so much the strop itself as long as they are quality leather strops and clean. learning to strop properly should have come before honing, then you would not be concerned over "HHT" which means little to shaving. the SRD modular is a good system and as long as the components are kept clean and dust free the edge will be fine as long as you do your part. STROPPING is the most important aspect o edge maintenance tc

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I feel I am "competent" at stropping. Meaning I don't cut my strop anymore and my edges don't degrade if anything they improve slightly.

We are all in different places on the learning curve of honing- where I am I thought HHT meant something after reading about it. Now I know it does not. I have moved an inch or two along the learning curve.

So far everyone has been patient and helpful and for that I am grateful.

I will be posting things that others have already investigated. I will try to keep it to a minimum. Please be patient with me while I work this out.

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Originally Posted by Sdm84

Fooling around with different techniques today- and something strange (for me) happened. This is a micrograph after bevel set on a 3k Naniwa Pro stone, but instead of cleaning the stone off after I lapped it I left slurry on the stone and did x strokes like I would on a Jnat. To me this looks like a Jnat edge?

I am progressing to 5k now and going to try the same thing, but I was going to check with the wisdom here to see if I'm just wasting my time here or if I can use this as a technique?

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When you use slurry you have a bunch of different sized particles in the mix so the eye does not see light reflected in an even pattern hence the hazy looking bevel.
Jknives can have the bevels polished that way but the edge will always be taken to a finer polish, even a microbevel.
If you hone up to 12k or more with slurry you will get a much shinier bevel because the particles are becoming smaller.
If you have a haze that also reflects like a mirror then you are approaching what can be done with a Jnat :)