My Journey in Learning to Hone

I’ve been shaving, and thus honing, for less than six months. I’m a beginner and wouldn’t expect my honing to match the professionals. I consider a razor honed when, after stropping, I can pass the razor at half hair height and most of the hairs pop off. Also, when shaving, there should be no tugging or pulling.

Learning to hone razors that don't have problems has been fairly easy so I though I would share how I learned.

My job has led me to learn how to find experts that know what they are doing and don’t give input unless it is correct. I pegged Lynn Abrams as this kind of person.

I did some research and called Straight Razor Designs. I asked what they would recommend. Their recommendation cost more, though has paid off in spades.

I bought:

$ 53.99 DMT 325 Flattening hone
$188.00 Naniwa Value pack, 5,k, 8,k, 12,k
$ 37.00 Naniwa 1,k stone
$ 18.00 Stone holder. There is one specifically for Naniwa stones if you get these.

$296.99 Total (plus shipping)

Now I had the tools and it was time to learn. Lynn has a video on how to hone with the Naniwa stones. Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

I got to work, trying to mimic everything he did. One thing that is very helpful is that he gives you tests to use at each stage to know you have achieved what was needed. When I sit down to hone, I go through this video, including stopping it a million times while I catch up.

The two lessons that made the most difference:

• Keep your elbow up.
• As with most things straight razor related. A light touch is key. When he says to do circles with only the weight of the blade, that is what he means. If you apply pressure, you won’t move up to the next level. It takes a while to learn how to do circles with no pressure.

At this point, I have to spend more time and circles at each stage than he does.

Was it worth it? It was to me. I enjoy learning new skills. Learning has required patience and some frustration, though the closer I follow what Lynn does, the less trouble and frustration I have.

We share some ideas I see. I learned in a similar fashion. I used Glens videos. I used the best razors I could. Most were new or close to new, from well known top shelf makers. I taped my spines, and continued to tape my spines until I could hone without killing the tape quickly with too much pressure on the spine. I learned a great deal more at my first meet. There is a ton of subtle things about honing and some techniques that you will never pick up in a video. By the time I had finished my second meet and honed about 50 razors after that meet, I got to a point where I could get very, very consistent results, and professional level edges. Also very early in my honing a very kind member here gifted me a very good and inexpensive loupe. I learned how to use that properly at my first meet.

Well done grasshopper. Soon, you too will be a master. I did much the same thing. Learning to shave with, and hone, a straight razor isn't steeped in mystical black arts, is it?

I would also add, keep HAD at bay until you get very competent with the hones you have. Adding new hones to the mix can get confusing until you get a system down and it's very repeatable.

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Originally Posted by Longhaultanker

Well done grasshopper. Soon, you too will be a master. I did much the same thing. Learning to shave with, and hone, a straight razor isn't steeped in mystical black arts, is it?

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I think a lot of learning to hone has a ton of variables. One of the variables is the person. Some people are very good with their hands and pick up doing almost anything with there hands quite easily. We all know someone that is the least handy person we know. Those people are the other end of the scale. Most people are somewhere in the middle. A lot of people take a little more practice and instruction to learn learn to hone. It is not the black arts, more is it rocket science. :-)

I'm not going to dwell on this. I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind. But this general wisdom of waiting to start learning to hone is simply ridiculous for any reason. If the beginner wants to take honing up simultaneously to straight shaving, more power to him. The sooner he takes up honing, the sooner he'll start learning. I did it, others did it, and maybe before even learning there was even a SRP. YouTube videos are a great resource. I was into all this about three months before I ventured to SRP. SRP is a fine resource, but it's not the only resource. This is all I'm going to say on this in this thread. I'm going to make a similar remark in another thread, and that's it.

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Originally Posted by RezDog

I think a lot of learning to hone has a ton of variables. One of the variables is the person. Some people are very good with their hands and pick up doing almost anything with there hands quite easily. We all know someone that is the least handy person we know. Those people are the other end of the scale. Most people are somewhere in the middle. A lot of people take a little more practice and instruction to learn learn to hone. It is not the black arts, more is it rocket science. :-)

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I forgot to mention. I'm not handy naturally. Between my hobbies of guns and wet shaving, my skill has improved, though no one should hold back for that reason.

Good for you Pete. As far as holding off, i feel its good to wait. My opinion is if your learning to shave with razors you have honed you might not be shaving with a properly honed razor. In turn may keep you from continuing to SR shave because of tugging or irritation. This is the only reason i say this. Now as far as me personnally, i jumped in with both feet and started honing pretty quickly. But i had razors i hadnt personnally honed to learn to shave with. I still tried mine but learned fast that my work wasnt as good as the other razors. Im still learning and enjoy this honing but dont get much time to practice so its taking longer to learn.

JMHO.

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Originally Posted by Longhaultanker

I'm not going to dwell on this. I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind. But this general wisdom of waiting to start learning to hone is simply ridiculous for any reason. If the beginner wants to take honing up simultaneously to straight shaving, more power to him. The sooner he takes up honing, the sooner he'll start learning. I did it, others did it, and maybe before even learning there was even a SRP. YouTube videos are a great resource. I was into all this about three months before I ventured to SRP. SRP is a fine resource, but it's not the only resource. This is all I'm going to say on this in this thread. I'm going to make a similar remark in another thread, and that's it.

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Indeed, as others have said " honings easy, until it ain't "
I thought I was a honmeister after my first couple of bevel sets, then came some that required a bit more skill. It was a smack in the face and brought me down a peg or too.

The mantra that is passed on so much that we should learn to shave first then refresh a pro honed razor...etc etc is done so because for the masses it works. Everyone is different, yes some can pick it up, like yourself, very easily, but others it can take time, even with one to one teaching.
I myself can pick up most hands on stuff pretty quickly but anything academic Im hopeless. At the age of 37 I still dont know my times table and have difficulty reading an analogue watch and dont get me started on how long it takes me to write a post or bloody email!
So yes, its not a dark art but it is a skill that plenty wont pick up without difficulty.

I think life is way too short to not do things that you want to do. If you are up for the challenge of fitting grapple grommets to filbert flanges, and you know it is going to be a challenge, you should go for it. I would not ever want to sound discouraging. I do however want everyone to move forward with open eyes. Research is always ever helpful. I have recently started drawing. Same as honing, it is a challenge and not only did I start drawing but I started doing scrimshaw at the same time. A big challenge for sure, and they can all be done. My point was we all learn at different rates. What some may walk into as an easy challenge, others may find difficult. Some are handy with their hands other have other areas of knowledge. Given enough time and instruction every will reach the goal. Some need longer than others. That's ok too.

When I first decided to jump into this hobby I did about 2-3 months of research. All the gear from razors, hones, strops, brushes, etc. I spent a lot of time watching YouTube videos; shaving, honing, building lather, etc. I had a good idea what I wanted to get into and what I didn't. I didn't, and still don't have time or inclination for vintage restoration work. All my razors are either new production or new old stock (NOS). I never suggested jumping from beginner to honemeister overnight, but a beginner must begin, not hesitate. My very first purchase was the Norton 4K/8k and 2 Gold Dollars, and I started. I progressed; bad hone jobs, bad shaves. I persisted, got better. As I bought good quality new production razors some came shave ready, some didn't. I learned and got better. Today, I wouldn't dream of sending out a razor for a professional honing. I understand there are more advanced issues, geometry issues, etc., that require more expertise. But let the beginner begin.

I have always been amazed by your story. You are a man of persistence for certain. I too started with several months of research, then purchased two shave ready brand name razors from an online retailer in Canada. I did start to learn to hone on some NOS vintage razors I purchased. Our stories are not that far apart, and neither is the OP's story. You learning shaving and honing simultaneously is quite the achievement. I actually think that every one that learns either of those to skill sets has made a milestone achievement. Doing it both at the same time is quite the undertaking. I compare it to doing simultaneous university degrees. Not everyone has the drive and skill to do it.

For me what I did was buy a honed ready to shave razor from a reputable source. Shaved with it. Then when it needed honing tried myself. Shaved with it and honed again. Then sent it back for Professional hone and asked for feedback on what I'd honed to. That gave me a good confidence boost !

RezDog, I thank you for your polite and courteous reply. I've not been shy sharing my sr story. Something brought each of us here: finding great grandpa's straight in the attic, or, in my case, bored in the truck at night. I went looking for a hobby, and I found one. God bless YouTube. However, there are somethings that pass for general wisdom, sacred cows, that really ought to be slaughtered. And this one the OP brought up is #1 on my list. Rather than say wait, learn to shave first, learn what a shave ready edge is first, we ought to be providing options on how to get started honing. I did both simultaneously. The OP did same. Others too. If someone told me no, wait, I'm going to do what I want to do anyway. As you say, shaving and honing are two different skill sets. No reason both can't be learned simultaneously if the beginner so desires. Anyway, thank you again for you courtesy.

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Originally Posted by Longhaultanker

When I first decided to jump into this hobby I did about 2-3 months of research. All the gear from razors, hones, strops, brushes, etc. I spent a lot of time watching YouTube videos; shaving, honing, building lather, etc. I had a good idea what I wanted to get into and what I didn't. I didn't, and still don't have time or inclination for vintage restoration work. All my razors are either new production or new old stock (NOS). I never suggested jumping from beginner to honemeister overnight, but a beginner must begin, not hesitate. My very first purchase was the Norton 4K/8k and 2 Gold Dollars, and I started. I progressed; bad hone jobs, bad shaves. I persisted, got better. As I bought good quality new production razors some came shave ready, some didn't. I learned and got better. Today, I wouldn't dream of sending out a razor for a professional honing. I understand there are more advanced issues, geometry issues, etc., that require more expertise. But let the beginner begin.

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That's pretty much my story too. I started straight shaving because of my interest in honing. I ran across the straight shaving forums when researching stones for knife honing and I specifically bought a straight razor at a flea market to see if I could hone it well enough to shave with and to see if I could actually make an edge "razor sharp". After 2 or 3 weeks of daily shaving I purchased a professionally honed razor to compare to my edge and found that I was doing pretty well. Once I had two razors, I honed my first razor until it performed better than the professionally honed razor, then rehoned the pro edge until it was better than that . By leapfrogging my two razors my honing kept getting better.

I certainly understand the logic of learning to shave first. That would be the sensible way to do it to remove a huge amount of variables. But if a beginner has an interest in honing, I'm with longhaultanker in saying "go for it". It would be easier to learn the shaving first, but the goal is to follow your interests and have fun. Everything does not have to be done in the most sensible way and the outcome only affects the person doing it. If it's not working he/she can always retreat to just shaving off of pro honed blades and delay the honing for a while.

I started honing at the same time as I did straight shaving. The razor I shaved with was honed by Lynn. I used it as a yardstick to measure my honing progress. If you're going to begin honing and straight shaving together, this is the route to take.

Be aware that you'll probably degrade your pro honed razor pretty quickly during your rookie phase. A month into shaving with it, don't assume that it is still sharp, unless you're getting stellar shaves. If your shave is just a tad uncomfortable, the blade is probably due for another honing. Yes, go through the hassle of sending it out again. It was after I got my blade re-honed that I realized just how awesome straight shaving could be.

As already mentioned, shaving and honing are two different skill sets. You can learn both at the same time.

Yup, I too came to straight razors from an interest in honing. The guy I bought hones from, (at a gun show, because that was where you bought them in 1974), told me, If, you like sharp knives, you should look into straight razors.

The next time I got a haircut, I asked my barber about it. He was the only one I knew, that used a straight. He ordered me a kit, Bowdin, Blue 4/8 carbon steel razor, Illinois leather linen strop, a boar brush, puck of soap and a 6 inch Translucent Ark.

I watched him hone it, (no tape) and he showed me how to touch it up on the ark, strop and shave. I mucked up the edge, took it back to him and watched him fix it and got some more pointers on stropping.

It took a while, but eventually I got a shaveable edge. I shaved with that one razor for over 10 years, and still have it.

A lot depends on the person, and it is a lot easier now days to learn with the internet and the quality of stones and paste available. But one thing is certain, just because it shaves, your edges and shaves will be a lot better a year from now.

For most new guys, it is important to learn to strop properly, that is where most edges are damaged.

As with most things in this hobby, there are no absolutes…

Life is too short for unnecessary waiting, so I started to learn how to hone very early on. I had plenty of razors on hand to know what a shave ready blade felt like when properly sharp, and I had the good fortune of living near enough to Glen to be able to receive hands-on instruction from the YT honing video master. Lastly, I am not afraid to make mistakes in order to learn a new skill. Even my custom blades were not safe from my efforts to learn how to hone. :)

I started everything at once as well and glad I did. I was lucky to have a VERY good honing teacher (Randy Tuttle:randydance062449) almost in walking distance from my house and I highly recommend some one on one lessons, but it can be done totally by yourself if that is the only option.

@Pete123,

How many hours have you got into it? I've so far stayed away from honing, but I think the time has come to DIY. Just wondering how long it took you to get to a stage where you were getting comfortable shaves - obviously there are a lot of variables - but give me your experience. Thanks,

Another great idea, that we have seen recently, and you do not live near a mentor, is buying a USB, microscope camera.

I have coached a few guys on line on the forum and off line by PM and email. You can buy a decent USB for as little as 20-30 dollars.

With a USB micrographs, you can get, one on one coaching/instruction.

Nothing, beats hands on, One on One instruction, but the USB camera is pretty darn good.

Here is one of the post, where a new guy went from Ebay beater to shave ready. Second Try at Honing.

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

A lot depends on the person, and it is a lot easier now days to learn with the internet and the quality of stones and paste available. But one thing is certain, just because it shaves, your edges and shaves will be a lot better a year from now.

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I agree wholeheartedly. Goes a long ways towards my "slaughter the sacred cow theory." I've got a new boss at my job. Older guy. Drove a truck in the 1970s. We're not getting along well. It ain't the 1970s anymore. I wonder how many of the guys clinging to their sacred cows watch the videos on YouTube? (I love me some drmatt357). And if you don't know who that is, I rest my case.

Seems that there are quite a few of us that picked up both shaving and honing around the same time.

I started honing because Iessed up the edge on my first razor and didn't want to send it out.

I, on the other hand, didn't do a lot of research, but like the way I try mist new things went with my gut on an impulse and got a coticule, a cretan for bevel work and a real cheap dual coarse synthetic for ebay specials.

It took blood, sweat and tears to get consistently good edges, and quite some more of that to get consistently better edges, but in the end it was fun.

I got some decent edges quite fast though, but that was a lot of luck and a bit of unicot.

And about DrMatt: I'm not so sure on his killing of sacred cows. I've watched a few of his videos and most of the stuff he discusses reminded me of threads on coticule.be, which didn't really do holy cows.

And I find his style rather annoying, but that is just very much my opinion and thus neither nor there.

Thanks for your post! I'm doing my research now and will be ordering my hones soon. I look forward to reading this thread and keeping track of it. Best Regards!

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Originally Posted by Longhaultanker

When I first decided to jump into this hobby I did about 2-3 months of research. All the gear from razors, hones, strops, brushes, etc. I spent a lot of time watching YouTube videos; shaving, honing, building lather, etc. I had a good idea what I wanted to get into and what I didn't. I didn't, and still don't have time or inclination for vintage restoration work. All my razors are either new production or new old stock (NOS). I never suggested jumping from beginner to honemeister overnight, but a beginner must begin, not hesitate. My very first purchase was the Norton 4K/8k and 2 Gold Dollars, and I started. I progressed; bad hone jobs, bad shaves. I persisted, got better. As I bought good quality new production razors some came shave ready, some didn't. I learned and got better. Today, I wouldn't dream of sending out a razor for a professional honing. I understand there are more advanced issues, geometry issues, etc., that require more expertise. But let the beginner begin.

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Same here, minus the 2-3 month's research. My facial hair is pretty sparse and I can't grow a decent beard. I also realized I -never- got a comfortable shave with a cartridge razor. Always with the razor burn and the ingrown hairs. So I started looking into how to curb those problems.

I found an Art of Man article on straight shaving, and how it was the most comfortable method and closest shave. That piqued my curiousity. At this point I was an hour in. Then I spent maybe 2 hours carousing this site and decided I was gonna pull the trigger. I ordered a Dovo with my following paycheck. A short while after came a Gold Dollar for practice, and a Cnat.

Well, that combination (and my lack of knowledge/skill) could only get me so far...so I made an account here and posted for help. That was when I learned about flattening hones, and was coaxed by several members into picking up a Norton 4/8. 6 months of trial and error later I was starting to have success, now I like to think I do pretty well for myself and hit the mark far more than I miss it.

Often when I see someone that isn't mechanically inclined, or is too scared to pick up a project and get their hands dirty, I wonder if it's really their inability or in part how they were raised. I grew up swinging hammers, turning wrenches, watching my grandfather fix well...damn near everything. So I'm generally not afraid to dig into something new that's merely an extension of the skillset I learned growing up.

Sure I screwed up a lot during the learning process. I think most of us 'handy types' have broken a thing or two while acquiring our skills. But that's part of learning, and the first (and most valuable lesson) is of course not to fiddle with anything you can't afford to goof up. Not until you can afford to goof it up anyway. The second most important lesson is not to fear breaking something. Typically the reason we're fiddling with something is because it doesn't work - in our case, the razor doesn't shave. So what exactly are you going to hurt by trying your hand at honing? You can't really make it (much) worse, so take a stab at it and see what happens. Third lesson, if at first you don't succeed, try again.

I always laugh when I see someone say, "I don't want to mess it up." Unless you take a good blade, edge, and hit it against something, you're not going to ruin it. You might degrade the edge, but not ruin it. You know how hard it was for me to "joint" an edge for this very reason? Very! Glad I got over that fear.

I'll share this tidbit with my SRP friends. I'm not mechanical. I don't tinker. I have a headlight out, I take it to the shop. Let them fix it. I tell them, I'm not a mechanic, don't want to be one. You try to make me one I'll resent the hell out of it. But it was the Boy Scouts when I was a kid that got me interested in things outdoors, including honing pocket knives. Our Scout Master was a real man and taught us boys much about the outdoors and lessons for life. Unlike the sissy scouts today.

I've commented elsewhere, the first hone I ever knew was my Dad's. He had a couple. I didnt know anything about them. Between Scouts and my Dad I learned to hone a pocket knife. I never saw him more angry than when I broke one of his hones.

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Originally Posted by Longhaultanker

I always laugh when I see someone say, "I don't want to mess it up." Unless you take a good blade, edge, and hit it against something, you're not going to ruin it. You might degrade the edge, but not ruin it. You know how hard it was for me to "joint" an edge for this very reason? Very! Glad I got over that fear.

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I have seen a few razors on here that started out as new and a newbie literally honed them to death using to much pressure and time on a 1k (or lower) where the spine looked like a completely worn out Barber used/abused antique store razor. Those are rarities, most would have stopped when they saw all the hone wear.

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Originally Posted by rodb

I have seen a few razors on here that started out as new and a newbie literally honed them to death using to much pressure and time on a 1k (or lower) where the spine looked like a completely worn out Barber used/abused antique store razor. Those are rarities, most would have stopped when they saw all the hone wear.

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One of the posters in this thread said that he taped the spine on all blades when he started.

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Originally Posted by Pete123

One of the posters in this thread said that he taped the spine on all blades when he started.

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Same here, I probably saved a few blades that way when I starting out.

I wish I could find the thread on the brand new Boker that someone killed by honing

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Originally Posted by rodb

I wish I could find the thread on the brand new Boker that someone killed by honing

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Did he learn his lesson? Albeit an expensive one at that. What was it Forest Gump said?

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Originally Posted by Longhaultanker

Did he learn his lesson? Albeit an expensive one at that. What was it Forest Gump said?

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I would certainly hope so! $170 down the drain. That was by far the worst newbie honing disaster I've seen here. The edge was into the "King Cutter" etch on the blade and the spine was approaching flat. You would have needed 5+ layers of tape to try and save that one

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Originally Posted by rodb

Same here, I probably saved a few blades that way when I starting out.

I wish I could find the thread on the brand new Boker that someone killed by honing

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If it is the thread I am thinking of he said he killed three of them but only showed pictures of one.
I taped for a long time to prevent that. Sometimes I tape to compensate for geometry issues, I am a really long way from anywhere, so my beginning to hone was partly due to the fact that I did not want my razor gone for over a month. In the beginning my honing was mostly touch ups, the on to bevel setting on very good razors. It is not rocket science, but it does go sideways every now and then when razors are not quite right, bends and twists and such. If you get to something you don't understand PM someone or post a thread. Early on in my honing I tended to PM people that I thought would know a good answer. I chose to PM because I was looking for one opinion and one correct answer. I knew if I posted a thread I would get twenty conflicting answer, all of which were potentially righ, but it is difficult to figure all that out when you are not even sure how to ask the question clearly.

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Originally Posted by RezDog

Early on in my honing I tended to PM people that I thought would know a good answer. I chose to PM because I was looking for one opinion and one correct answer. I knew if I posted a thread I would get twenty conflicting answer, all of which were potentially righ, but it is difficult to figure all that out when you are not even sure how to ask the question clearly.

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+1. Exactly what I chose to do and for the exact reasons. Ace really helped me learn and still does. Now we help each other but I think I get the most help from him.

The Greaves razor I honed the other day had more issues than a GD including a chippy edge. Ace helped me nail that one down into an "easy hone". I can usually hone just about any razor on a full ark progression but every once in a while there is a bugger that comes along and it sure don't hurt to get some outside advice and reminders.

I absolutely love honing all things sharp and was a. If reason for getting into straight razors. I remember my Dad's pocket knife was always razor sharp and he would "strop" it on an Arkansas black dry. He would oil the hone maybe once in a while but other than that it sat in the utensil drawer ready for use. I learned on old knives by trial and error and the old test was to shave arm hair with it. The good ole days.

What is a meet? Do they have them around Seattle? I've got a big commercial building I would be willing to offer the use of in Marysville, WA

A meet is a great way to learn more. Hands on honing, sharing soap samples, learning about a lot of things that have to do with shaving.
I recommend you do a search for members in your area. Try to find a Mentor or admin from the forum to help you if you want to put together a meet. Some lasts days but like in Denver, or meets are 5 or 6 hours. Having a place is the first step. Getting folks together and wanting to come can be tough with schedules. Refreashments are a bonus and a comfortable location is a must. So find a few members in your area and send out some PMs. Hope you manage to get it going. Its a lot of fun.

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Originally Posted by Obadiahhj

What is a meet? Do they have them around Seattle? I've got a big commercial building I would be willing to offer the use of in Marysville, WA

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There have been a lot of meets in the Seattle area. Usual under the name of shavecon or such. There is a member that organizes them. The last one I was at had a lot of suppliers there. Gssixgun is in Sandpoint Idaho and travels a lot and teaches honing. He is one of the most experienced guys around.
mattcb used to organize it in Seattle.
If you are really interested in getting involved in organizing a meet I suggest PM him first.