how frequently do you lap?

wondering just how frequently you lap your synthetic stones? after every single razor? after a half dozen or so? do you lap the lower grits more frequently than your higher? i know that the ease - or difficulty - in each specific razor will make a difference but was just wondering in general. i have a set of 1-3-5-8-12 naniwa specialty stones and was just wondering how often others lap theirs.

similar question for naturals like coticules, jnats, zulu grey etc. since these are 'harder' stones do they need to be lapped as frequently? or only periodically once initially lapped flat?

thanks.
-s.

for me, it's not a matter of lower grits or higher grits. it's a matter of softer stone or harder stone, it's grit-agnostic for me :)

It depends on the stone (this is the same thing for synthetics as it is naturals). If you get a stone that glazes over, then you have to lap it to keep it going, and it's a better idea to do that than it is to involve foreign naguras.

If you have a really hard synthetic and a pet nagura, then you really rarely need to lap. Same as a hard jnat that is a nagura plate (i.e., the base stone is just something for the nagura to work on and is otherwise never involved in the cutting). Lapping is seldom necessary.

I found myself lapping shapton pro high grit stones fairly often, and with tool work, same with the 1000. Same with the king and imanishi stones, the chosera (which must be soaked, despite the fact that it will surface check after a while) 10k and the SS 12k.

I have Super Stones and follow Glen's advice to lap them briefly before each razor. 4-6 figure eights producing slurry which I also use. This way I never worry about them not being flat.

I clean my stone under running water using a small slurry stone. When the stone does not remove all dirt and residue I lap. Usually about every 2 to 4 hones depending on how much work goes into getting a good edge.

I lap after every session , apart from Jnats. I'm a bit of a perfectionist so I cant help myself. (in my defence)

I have never lapped my Arkansas stones and probably will never have to. This includes my Washita stones. I have a Norton oil stone (course/fine) for large chips, knives, ect. And have never lapped that either and it shows no sign of dishing. Admittedly, I don't seem to use this stone much and is the only synthetic that I kept.

I rarely lap my Naniwa Super Stones after the initial one. Yea, I know it is contrary to everything but there it is.

Bob

I only use naturals (Thüringer stones and coticules) and after the initial lapping I would only lap if I'd notice unevenness while honing or by eye.

I say 'would' because in over five years, I think I have lapped my main coticule maybe once, and it probably wasn't even necessary.

I have lapped an unevenly wearing Cretan (bevel work) a few times, when it was visually out of flat. And even before that, it still worked fine. Better after lapping, but not all that much.

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Originally Posted by JOB15

I lap after every session , apart from Jnats. I'm a bit of a perfectionist so I cant help myself. (in my defence)

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is a 'session' equal to just one razor? of do you do two or three razors and then lap once all are done?

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Originally Posted by BobH

I rarely lap my Naniwa Super Stones after the initial one. Yea, I know it is contrary to everything but there it is.

Bob

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correct sir. very contrary. mind if i ask roughly how many razors youve skipped across those stones so far?

I hardly ever lap my naturals. My nortons when I used them i would lap before each session. My naniwa 12k I flatten every now and then and I will always keep stones clean, so if there are grey marks from razor I was honing I will clean that off before next razor but that is usually just the case for my low get stones. My high grit stones only get built up particicles that I can see/feel very very rarely.

i know some will say 'lap when they need lapping' but thats not too helpful for a beginner (like me) who cant quite recognize when when has arrived yet. ive honed prob around 35-50 razors by now and have been lapping after each razor so far. sure the stones are flat but im wondering if im eating away too much stone too frequently. im a little surprised to see some stones reduced by maybe 25%.

You are going to get a variation in responses :)

Lap = Remove enough surface to bring back to flat, which is rarely needed or should be rarely needed when honing SR's since we use MINIMAL pressure when honing

Refresh/clean the surface = To expose fresh cutting particles, and that depends on the hone itself, your Naniwa's tend to glaze pretty fast, so a quick 3-5 figure 8's before each razor simply exposes the new cutting particles and keeps the hone in top form

Hence the answers from "Rarely" to "Every Razor"


To give a real world answer, IIRC my Nanaiwa SS set was bought in 2009 I grid lapped them twice the first week I owned them I grid lapped the 1k about 4 years ago..
That was it for "lapping" but I give them a quick light refresh before each razor..

3+ years since I lapped my 12k or really any stone I have, I have a well used DMT325, that I run over the stone a couple of times to clean it, but mostly I just rub it with my fingers under water before putting it away.

If your not honing professionally I can't see needing to lap all the time. It's just washing more of your stone down the drain than is needed. I use my 12k all the time cause I touch up on a regular schedule, every 10-12 shaves, 4-5 laps so that really doesn't seem to be dishing my stone. So to answer your question to Bobh in my house 3+ years every 2 weeks or so has been on my stone. My other stones haven't been used much so can't give you a time frame for them to need lapped again. Tc

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

You are going to get a variation in responses :)

Lap = Remove enough surface to bring back to flat, which is rarely needed or should be rarely needed when honing SR's since we use MINIMAL pressure when honing

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define minimal pressure please? doesnt lynn mention applying a decent amount of torque at times? i have been using some pressure, mostly during the 1k bevel set, but even still in lesser amounts with the 3k and 5k. only going to light weight-of-the-razor laps on the 8k and 12k.

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Originally Posted by sloanwinters

define minimal pressure please? doesnt lynn mention applying a decent amount of torque at times? i have been using some pressure, mostly during the 1k bevel set, but even still in lesser amounts with the 3k and 5k. only going to light weight-of-the-razor laps on the 8k and 12k.

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Minimal Pressure,,, is defined in relation to Knife and Tool honing not between grit during a SR honing session

Torque and Pressure are also two different forces

Pressure = Downward force
Torque = Twisting force toward the Bevel

This is an enlightening thread. I don't lap nearly as much as most people are saying... I'll start lapping more and see if it makes a difference. with most of my naturals they seem to perform better after a few razors have been put to them after a fresh lapping (especially finishers). curious...

Every time that I hone I quickly check the hones I'm using with a metal straight edge. I lap a stone when I can see daylight between the metal edge and the stone.
When I'm finished honing I always flush the stone with water and clean the surface with a slurry stone, then rinse.
This method has always served me well.

Pete <:-}

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Originally Posted by Pithor

I only use naturals (Thüringer stones and coticules) and after the initial lapping I would only lap if I'd notice unevenness while honing or by eye.

I say 'would' because in over five years, I think I have lapped my main coticule maybe once, and it probably wasn't even necessary.

I have lapped an unevenly wearing Cretan (bevel work) a few times, when it was visually out of flat. And even before that, it still worked fine. Better after lapping, but not all that much.

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This is pretty much my approach to it with any stone.

With respect to Synthetic stones, Gssixgun already hit it. Lapping I've done once on my Norton and Shapton Kuromaku stones. I think my Norton 8K may just now have a slight dish in it due to knife abuse or some other wild @$$ experiment that has nothing to do with straight razors. So it might need a light lapping. My 4K and 1K recently got lapped too, Kitchen knives and natural stones can be a bit unforgiving during the learning phase (applying new knowledge to old cutlery). For the most part I just refresh them both with a few passes of my Naniwa scrubbing stone when they load up. Refreshing is done when I notice cutting action is reduced beyond what a light scrubbing of the surface will restore.

My natural stones? I lapped them once. Each of them has 2 surfaces, one burnished and one that's been hit with 400 or 600 grit sandpaper. The burnished side will likely never get touched with anything but water, shave lather, or oil depending on the stone. The coarse side gets roughed up with sand paper again once it slows. No lapping needed, as Steel said they'll probably be good for life.

I have also found that the Naniwa Superstones load up pretty quickly. I 'clean' them by lapping them before each use. I haven't grid lapped them since I set them initially. Same with my Norton combo 4/8 but I don't use the 4 anymore. I rarely touch my coticules or Thuringian and I just got a JNat and haven't done anything to it because it came lapped flat.

Adam


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just to illustrate what I mean, when I see this:

Attachment 267886

Then I know it's time to break out the plate and lap it. I can't recall what I did to reveal that, probably using it to burnish a natural stone or something along those lines. But 5 minutes on the diamond plate (maybe less I didn't time it) and all's flat. If that had been used on nothing but straight razors it probably never woulda become dished like that.

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Originally Posted by sloanwinters

correct sir. very contrary. mind if i ask roughly how many razors youve skipped across those stones so far?

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No, I don't mind at all. I have about 40 razors in rotation, most done from bevel reset up ,that I have skipped across those stones.

Bob

I lap when I notice a different swarf pattern on the hone when I touch up a beloved razor. I recently acquired a nice hone and as it looked flat, I proceeded to hone a favored razor. I noticed, but didn't think about having to change my strokes to make a more even swarf pattern. Sorta, kinda like a frowning edge. It passed a HHT and shaved OK but not of the former quality.
I then did the pencil line thing and grabbed my coarse DMT and, yes a bit of hollow both edges an deeper in the center. Only a, maybe, paper thickness of depression but suffice to say, enough to make a difference.
How much is me? How much the hone? I am not sure. But, a difference there was.
YMMV!
~Richard
PS. Not all diamond plates are perfectly flat and so,can affect the lapping effort.

Since I started using the Naniwa dressing stone.. Not very often. Maybe once a year for synthetic stones.
As long as it took me to get the Washita flat that I found in the wilds...probably never have to again. SOB is like lapping a railroad track.!!
I've all but moved over to Nats, their slower than synthetics, but I like sneaking up on a perfect, smooth shaving edge that isn't as harsh as the synthetics.

Adding ten passes from a coti, after a 12k Nani, removes this harshness.

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Originally Posted by outback

Adding ten passes from a coti, after a 12k Nani, removes this harshness.

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with slurry or water only?

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Originally Posted by sloanwinters

with slurry or water only?

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Water only.