Flipping the blade

Sorry if there's a well know term for keeping the spine down when flipping the blade over when honing or stropping but I'm trying to train myself to use this method and fight the urge to flip towards the stone or strop. Are there any videos on the subject? I will say that flipping the blade the wrong way feels 100% more natural to me. Maybe its the lack of grip on my razor thats screwing me up. I'm ready to 3d print some sort of swivel and install it my razor :-) I'm a knife guy and just recently got into razors and I'd hate for my flipping technique to impede my honing progress so I cheat and use the "wrong" way since I'm comfortable with it and I know I'm applying the same amount of pressure on each side. Anyway, I'm sure this has been discussed hundreds of times before. If there's a term for this I'll be glad to do some more searching. Just didn't know what to search for. I really wanna learn how to control the razor the correct way. I know practice is the ticket but just wanted to check to see if there were any best practices with regard to holding it, finger placement, etc.

When I see someone flipping the blade the wrong way, the first thing I do is ask how long they have been honing. If it already has been for many hours and many razors, I just tell them that though they are doing it wrong and ideally should try to switch, the odds are good that they will not be able to do so.

On the other hand, if they just recently have begun to hone (ideally that same day) then I tell them that they should try to be diligent about doing it the right way. As I watch them hone, I annoyingly point out to them each time they flip it the wrong way in the hope that they can form the right habit.

Like riding a bike and a lot of other things that involve motor skills, over time your brain and muscles perform honing on autopilot. The longer the bad habit is in place, the harder and less likely it is to change.

Yes, practice is the best way to fix it. Ideally you can find some one on one help or else study some honing videos.

By the wrong way, it makes me think you are rolling towards the edge and not the spine? We all know the risk is quite high to nick a strop and roll the edge, or in the case of honing it will lead you to nick the edge, which steps you a long way backwards. I would hope you switch before you spen too much time fixing razors and repairing strops. However some do flip their razors like that and have simply learned how to do it without messing things up. eother way I hope you find a safe route. Mothered are hundreds of paths to shave ready and most of them are correct

When you say flipping, I assume that you are lifting the blade completely off the hone before you flip it. In which case you might not roll the edge, but in my very limited experience lifting the razor off the hone just gives another opportunity to bring it down wrongly and case a chip or worse.

If you flip it on the spine you don't need to take the razor off the hone at all and in fact you adopt more of a rolling technique rather than a flipping one. Much more akin to stropping which in my opinion helps the muscle memory even more.

As RezDog says, there are many paths and if you are seeing success then don't worry too much. That said I would hit YouTube and search for some honing videos. If you don't know the terms to search for (other than razor honing) you could do a lot worse than checking out Lynn Abrams and gssixgun they have some great videos. Once they are up you will see many others suggested.

Good luck.

When I strop, whether on a long hanging strop, or a shorter paddle strop, I always keep the spine in contact with the strop. I have developed good muscle memory and can strop at a decent speed.

In contrast, when I hone, I find it difficult to keep the spine on the stone. I lift the blade from the stone, flip the blade and then return the blade to the stone allowing the spine to contact first and then the edge touches down a fraction of a second later.

I think the difference is that I am using 3" wide strops and generally use straight stropping strokes. With honing, I use circles or x-strokes, so there is a different muscle memory involved. I have tried to learn how to keep the spine on the hone as well, but my muscles just won't cooperate.

I had a lot of trouble with this starting out as well. I had to literally sit for an entire night on a hone, concentrating on each flip, slowly but surely I got faster and it feels natural now. It took an entire evening, but it took me months to learn how to hone in general, so it's a small price to pay imo :)

When i hone I flip the edge towards the stone on the stroke going away from me, I have tried to correct myself over and over but my brain and cordination tells me no to so I just live with it, been honing several years so i doubt I can correct this, my edges are acceptable to me and I honestly have never wiped the edge so I guess I'm ok, for me to try to force myself to correct after all this time would be like starting over.

You may find it easier to develop the right stroke if you stick with using only your thumb and forefinger to hold the blade and your pinky to adjust the level and pressure.

Knife sharpening wants to hold the entire handle in your hand. Don't need to do that with a razor.

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Originally Posted by RayClem

When I strop, whether on a long hanging strop, or a shorter paddle strop, I always keep the spine in contact with the strop. I have developed good muscle memory and can strop at a decent speed.

In contrast, when I hone, I find it difficult to keep the spine on the stone. I lift the blade from the stone, flip the blade and then return the blade to the stone allowing the spine to contact first and then the edge touches down a fraction of a second later.

I think the difference is that I am using 3" wide strops and generally use straight stropping strokes. With honing, I use circles or x-strokes, so there is a different muscle memory involved. I have tried to learn how to keep the spine on the hone as well, but my muscles just won't cooperate.

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This is exactly my problem. I can strop pretty well using the proper method of keeping the spine down but for some reason things fall apart when I'm over a stone :-)

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Originally Posted by RayClem

In contrast, when I hone, I find it difficult to keep the spine on the stone. I lift the blade from the stone, flip the blade and then return the blade to the stone allowing the spine to contact first and then the edge touches down a fraction of a second later.

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I don't think lifting the spine off the hone is the problem as much as rotating the blade in the opposite direction.

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Originally Posted by Butzy

I had a lot of trouble with this starting out as well. I had to literally sit for an entire night on a hone, concentrating on each flip, slowly but surely I got faster and it feels natural now. It took an entire evening, but it took me months to learn how to hone in general, so it's a small price to pay imo :)

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I'll second this. It took me a while to get the hang of leaving the spine on the hone/strop and flipping the blade 'properly' too. If you don't goof up, it doesn't really matter. But the first time you nick an $80 strop, irreplaceable vintage strop, or ding an edge at the finishing stage thus sending you right back to the 1K might be about the time you decide to mend your ways. A dinged edge is what changed my mind on the subject.

I'll also second what Kelbro said. The flip comes more natural when you hold the tang between thumb and forefinger at opposing corners. Quick flip of the fingers and the edge falls right in place.

Since creating this topic, I wanted to say that I'm pretty proficient in the "flip". Just takes practice. I found that one should ensure that the fingers using to flip the blade are totally dry. You want as much grippage as possible :-) Seems like a simple thing but I was failing miserably when using wet fingers since my dominant hand would be the one I'd nominate to splash the stone with water :-)

Hehe, guess I shoulda checked the post date before chiming in just to up my post count. Yea, dry fingers is imperative. I use a spray bottle to wet stones, but when I use shave lather as a honing medium on natural stones sometimes it migrates down the tang and screws up the works.

Well... the next level is wet fingers. And the next after that is honing and eating french fries (with your dominant hand of course!)

Jokes aside, flipping the blade properly will not only reduce the chance of nicking the edge, but will also shorten the flipping movement. Although awkward at first, it becomes natural with practice. It also increases speed, slightly... maybe by 10%. I don't like flipping the blade on the spine while honing, especially on coarser stones. It leaves marks on the spine, and some of them are decorated, have gold wash, etc. Just something to take into account as well.

Ha! I'm exactly the opposite, I flip edge down both honing and stropping. Why? I learned my initial muscle memory honing knives. No one ever flips a knife on the spine. Once in a great while I'll put a tiny nick in an edge, usually honing a 7/8 or wider when I'm tired. I've been honing razors 6+ years.

I've never, ever nicked a strop with a razor. I regularly destroy them with kitchen knives because I want the tip to be 100% and that means eventually cutting or scratching the leather. Now, I do use scrap leather or failed eBay strops for this purpose, or cardboard cereal box material (thanks for the idea Ron!)

The most important thing is that you develop a rythym that allows you to hone or strop without thinking about it.

Cheers, Steve

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Originally Posted by Steve56

I've never, ever nicked a strop with a razor. I regularly destroy them with kitchen knives because I want the tip to be 100% and that means eventually cutting or scratching the leather. Now, I do use scrap leather or failed eBay strops for this purpose, or cardboard cereal box material (thanks for the idea Ron!)

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Newspaper works well too.

since almost every man on the planet is a knife guy, that shouldn't stop you from doing the right move with a razor cause all men aren't straight shavers so it must be learned like everything else,, when us knife guys turned straight user we just practiced,, so practice the right way slow and easy till you got the muscle memory Tc

When I am honing, the one word that I do not associate with the process is "fast".

Take your time. Force yourself to adhere to good and proper technique, including rolling over the spine to change direction.

Muscle memory is helpful, but focused concentration is better.

:)