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Hope this is the right place to post this and i know it's not razor related but ,up till i learned how to hone a razor i thought i was pretty good at getting a good edge on a knife. now that i know what sharp really is i have realized that i don't know how to get a decent edge on a knife. Any body have any tips/lessons for me? How does one keep the bevel even on a knife? I have the stones but don't know how to use them (at least on a knife).
Good post, and I was actually thinking that myself...I tried to put an edge on my EDC Kershaw, and no idea how to get an hair splitting edge....
Alot of guys are using lansky and kme systems. You lock the blade in and move the stone at an adjustable angle. The kme is awesome but expensive! With these systems you can get a blade that is polished like our razors and will seriously whittle a hair.
What I do with my Benchmade Adamas, used my dmc8 raised a burr on one side then took to the other. Then I went to an Arkansas stone I have and worked that to get most of the dmc8 scratches out then a block strop I have for my wood carving tools. When it starts to dull I do a few passes on the stop or the ark, sometimes both. It's not a mirror and I guess I don't know if it will shave but it's sharp for my edc needs. I use it for everything. I have taken knives to an 8k level and found, what for? Yea the bevel is neat and shinny and that's about it. Yes it was crazy sharp and would certainly shave hair but for what I need a knife for it wasn't worth the time.
As far as keeping bevels even by hand, that takes patience and practice. Sharpening by hand will give you a convex edge unless you have the afore mentioned systems. Nothing wrong with convex edges it is just a product of hand sharpening. I wouldn't go higher than 1k for most practical stuff. But we like our edges :) so if you want to then take your time and go through a progression.
I'll add lansky systems are not really expensive the kme however.... dig deep. Plus I believe there are just about endless options for stones for either set up. Hope this helps tintin.
Edge Pro. Free hand honing is for people who don't want perfect. I want perfect.
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I knew I was forgetting ONE! They make beautiful edges.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
I bought a sharpening device like this at Lowes. Its not perfect but it does a fine job for a knife. I too was wanting to sharpen my knife after learning to hone. This is what i found. My pocket knife is sharp now and it dont take much to bring the edge right back. BTW, its called Smith Sharpening Kit. Buy on-line cheaper.
I never will make my money back on my Edge Pro, but I regularly use it to hone kitchen, hunting, and EDC knives for friends and family. They tend to be thrilled and surprised at how well a properly honed knife works.
A guy that was allowed to hunt on my family's farm ended up shooting a doe that he did not want, so he gave her to me to skin and process for myself. I asked him if he wanted the loin or beer or whatever to make it up to him. My brother told him, "let him sharpen your knife for you."
A couple weeks later I was sitting in a tree stand early in the morning and got a call that a large buck had been hit on the highway near the opposite end of the farm and had run into the cornfield. By the time I got there, the deer had already been field dressed by the guy whose knife I had sharpened. When he saw me, he held up the plain old Buck knife and said in a seriously awed manner, "I didn't know a knife could do that!"
I like to make things sharp and especially like it when people are happy with the things I made sharp for them.
On YouTube there is a video, home made knife sharpener. System similar to these mentioned. Not sure how well it works I didn't watch the video.
while i was looking at the youtube videos i found this one https://youtu.be/k3SbEWFSA8s pretty amazing system (they have different models depending on your needs and the amount you have to spend). not sure which method i will end up using. Was kind of hoping for a simpler (and cheaper) fix.
I had a lansky set for a long time and it worked well and was fairly inexpensive. The one I had required a bench vice to hold the knife holding mechanism which was an inconvenience but not huge. As stated Smith makes the same set up.
IMO if you take your time doing it by hand is fine. Consistent results take time of course but as with razor honing I find it's relaxing.
I hand hone and have since I was a young kid. All it takes is practice. The same principles apply- make sure the bevel is set, and then refine the edge as far as you would like to go. I like to go all the way on my knives also. It doesn't take me but a few minutes because I've been doing it all my life. The wife is used to extremely sharp kitchen knives and they are actually fun to use. My EDC is almost as sharp as my razors. Cuts like a hot knife through butter and I keep it that way with minimal maintenance every few days. Some people raise a burr but that wasn't the way I was taught as a kid so i don't monkey around with it. In my experience razors have been much easier to tackle since they have a built in angle whereas you have to create/maintain an angle on knives. Here is the best advice I can give you to keeping a bevel even by hand.
Picture the bevel against the stone in your mind and practice practice practice. There is a lot of muscle memory that you have to develop since your arm and hand moves up and down with the curve of the blade similar to a rolling X stroke. Or.....you can spend a few hundred on one of those new fangled machines and skip the practice part and get results right away. It is valid but IMO not as rewarding.
Personally I find the lansky system to be very time consuming and not without its problems. eg. Need to move the rig down the length of a long blade like a carving knife to avoid weird geometries. Can be very tricky to do the heavily curved end of a short blade.
I found the spiderco triangle system to be much easier except the standard ceramic stones are quite a fine grit and so if you need to set a bevel it can take an eternity of honing.
I bought a Norton 4k/8k initially for razors, but then moved to Naniwas for razor honing. Now use the Norton for my kitchen knives, couldn't be happier. Hold stone in hand. Yes it takes a bit of practice, and yes I create a slightly convex edge, but it's fast, creates the best edges I've ever had on the knives, and the edges seem more durable, maybe due to the convexing.
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If I already did not have the Edge Pro, that is the device I would have. It has some very admirable features.Quote:
Originally Posted by tintin
I acknowledge that it can be done quite well by someone who has had enough practice. I admire the skill it requires. I don't have it despite trying. What convinced me to give up was when I borrowed knives from people who claimed to be really good at hand honing. When I examined the edges under a microscope, I decided that I wanted edges better than what they could accomplish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel
Still, I admire the effort.
I have found some of the videos that accompany the Chef Knives To Go product descriptions to be very helpful in sharpening my kitchen knives. Bester 1.2k followed by a Suehiro Rika 5k as shown here is a good combo, with the Beston 500 as a precursor as needed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60f7ab0yRPg
Well, I am not sure what you saw in that there microscope of yours Ron but hand honing is not for everyone and if it is not for you well then that is ok too. When it's all said and done and the lights go out, it is all about if you are happy with your edges.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
Wow I am in love! [emoji7]Quote:
Originally Posted by tintin
If I were to take a wild guess? Probably all the things we wouldn't/couldn't accept on our razors. Micro chips, burrs, stria left behind from coarser stones, places that weren't hit at all by finer stones due to changes in angle relative to the stone...at least that's what I found when I examined one of my hand honed edges. Takes a lot longer to fix all of that with a knife than a razor too! I can see where someone would prefer to use a honing device to keep their angle steady. But even with all those imperfections my blades cut fine, and when I went back and fixed them...well, I probably could've shaved comfortably with my pocket knife.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel
I need to find that thing. Finally got it just the way I like em and now it's lost. I don't want to spend the time re-setting the bevel on another one.
I do not get too bothered by what I see of a straight razor,s edge under a microscope because I do not have one. That said I still manage a perfectly fine shaving edge suitable for my own use.
Considering knife edges do not generally need the refinement to the level of a straight razor's edge to do the job just fine, I hand hone. Each to their own.
Bob
You forgot dramatically different bevel angles between the two sides of the blade. Other than than you got it about right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal
I wish I had not seen this.....time to visit AmazonQuote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
I started honing knives around 7 years old. I still have the scar on my finger when I took my first jackknife and was jabbing it into a block of wood point first and it snapped shut on my finger. Sliced it to the bone and it took multiple bandaids on the way to church in the back of an old station wagon to finally stop the bleeding. I never did that again. I never gave up honing though either and still enjoy it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal
My edges may have had all those issues when I was a child learning to hone and I would venture a guess that everyone goes through the experience of less then perfect bevels and edges when they start out. Some continue to learn, others quit, and I assume some probably do neither because they are ok with all of the invisible "imperfections". At such an early age I didn't even know about microscopes or even a loupe or magnifier for that matter. I just tried to get my knives as sharp as my dads pocket knife which I finally did as a young adult. I have had quite a few more years "practice" since then. My bevels look dead straight and even to me when I look at them. If you put them under a scope they may well be way off under 7000 power magnification. I don't know. I have never looked and I probably never will as it seems a bit unnecessary to me as Bob pointed out.
Take away- keep practicing and you will get there OR buy a machine OR send them out. Makes no difference to me or my dad. As for me I will continue to hone the old fashion way. Hey someone has to continue on the tradition right? :tu
I started honing about the same age when I was given my first Swiss Army pocket knife. I guess my dad figured I couldn't hurt much with the little 2 inch blade, and I suppose he was right. I've had many a little nick over the years, but never any true cuts until I decided to try hand sharpening a sword by holding the stone in my hand and running it along the blade. Let's just say I learned the hard way why that was a bad idea, and I'm glad I slipped while setting the bevel - I still have the tip of the finger that slid about a foot and a half down the blade. Superglue did wonders to stitch it back together.
I don't hold my knives to the same standard as my razors. They just have to cut, they don't need to shave. So it's rare for me to examine them under magnification. For the most part now my thumb pad and eyes tell me enough about the condition of the edge. I will say this though, since getting into straight razors all of my edges have gotten better by leaps and bounds.
From Russia with love.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brontosaurus
Hey guys, do you shave with your kitchen and hunting knives?
I use a hardware store cheap and cheerful bench hone to sharpen my knives and a sharpening rod to keep them sharp. When I can cut a tomato without squeezing its contents out I am happy.
On my pocket knife, I use a small DMT as I am too hard on it for a fine edge to last. I do have some 'Sunday knives' which I will hone to pretty damn sharp as I don't abuse them the way I do my EDC.
On kitchen knives. I am no Chef and certainly use no microscope.
On a kitchen knife, it seems a somewhat jagged edge is a good thing as cutting through meat and veggies. JMO.
Every time I hand hone one it is sharp, yet dulls quickly. Back to this thing. Works good! :rofl2:
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Oh! I AM lazy, BTW. ;)
Nice story. I can relate. Since I started honing razors many aspects of my knife honing along with my stone collection have improved. I use the same stones for my knives as I do my razors. I think I have honed more straight razors in the last 3 years then I have knives in the past 10.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal
