I have a Dovo. I've been working on trying to get it shave ready for some time. Each time I seem to waiver between overhoned and semi-sharp, but I can't seem to get it to the ready point. I'm using a Norton 4K/8K. Any suggestions?
-Ryan
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I have a Dovo. I've been working on trying to get it shave ready for some time. Each time I seem to waiver between overhoned and semi-sharp, but I can't seem to get it to the ready point. I'm using a Norton 4K/8K. Any suggestions?
-Ryan
I am in a similar position..................Dovo stainless. Trying with a Shapton 12k professional and pasted paddle (1 mircon paste). I did have this Dovo professionally honed when I bought it but it has pulled from the first time. I managed to get it a little better myself but still a long way to go........
Thanks
Anthony
Don't give up.
Do smaller sessions and test between them. It has to get better!
Maybe change what you have been doing a bit - say more work on the 8K, less pressure, X vs straight strokes - or the opposite, etc.
Good luck
Ivo
What have you been doing up to this point in terms of technique, pressure, number of passes etc? I don't think that you will get any useful suggestions for improvement unless you can specifically communicate what you have been doing. What makes you feel that you have overhoned the razor?Quote:
Originally Posted by radiofree
Here's some clarification: I apply light pressure, a little more than that made by the blade. Then push down the stone, heel leading. Up to this point I've been doing (conservative) sharpening pyramids of 1/5, 1/5, 3/5, 5/5, 3/5, 3/5, 1/5, 1/5, 1/5. My belief in having overhoned the razor stems from the HHT and the thumbnail test. In both cases I'm sensing that the razor is keen though not shave ready. That being said, I could be jumping the gun in this regard...
I've found , that lifting the edge of my razor up off the hone , before the end of the stroke , improved my honing results 100% . I can get my razors scary sharp , on my Norton 8k . A very light touch is also required . Also , make sure to lap your hone .
Thanks Dave. I'll look into varying the way the razor moves on the hone.
-ryan
I hear ya brother! Sometimes I feel the same way. I've been working on three different razors and no luck with getting them shave sharp. I've come close, but I can't get any of them to pop hairs off of the norton hone. I looked at the spine of my new fromm and noticed that the wear is only on the ends of the blade. The spine doesn't even touch in the middle when I lay it flat!! I haven't lapped the stone, so that's my next endeavor.
I've tried a wide variety of pyramids and just worked on the 8k side with regular testing in between, and still I don't have good results. I've literally put hours and hours into this honing stuff, and I'm very careful to use light pressure and keep the blade flat. Luckily, Damon is going to give me some help on Wed....Thank God!
I haven't tried an x pattern yet, so after lapping and using an x pattern, I'll let you guys know if there's any improvement. Good god, I just want a nice smooth shave without ripping hairs and scraping my skin. That's not too much to ask, now is it?
A new Dovo stainless is not going to get sharp with that little honing. remember that the factory bevel is "off" and needs to be reformed. Tape the spine with electrical tape, lap your hone flat, then perform 25-50 laps on the Norton 4K. The first 10-20 laps should be with some pressure and the balance with only the weight of the blade. If you have a microscope what you are looking for is a bevel with a uniform texture and color for the full length and width of the blade.Quote:
Originally Posted by radiofree
If you use the thumbnail test then you are testing for a uniform smoothness and "draw". "Draw is the blade cutting into the nail. If the blade just skates off the nail or is rough then continue on the 4K until you do.
Follow that with 15-25 laps on the 8K. The first 5-10 should be with some pressure and the remainder with only the weight of the blade. Then strop and shave test.
If the razor needs further work then use the pyramids.
Hope this helps,:)
Be sure to lap the hone flat first. Then if the razor is still only showing wear at the ends then you can conclude that you have a warped blade. It should take no more than 1 1/2 hours to hone a razor to shaving sharp.Quote:
Originally Posted by misteredwino
If your blade is slightly warped then the solution is to use an X pattern with a lot of focus on the portion of the blade that is coming off the bottom of the hone. A narrow hone also works well on warped blades. Xman has a rolling stroke that would also be effective.
I am unfamiliar with the Shapton 12K so I would suggest that you contact someone who uses them. Perhaps MParker?Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony416
If you are still up a creek then contact me.
I'm sorry, I used improper terminology, and I should clarify. The blade on my razor actually makes flat contact with the stone, it's the spine that doesn't sit flush. What should I do in that case?Quote:
Originally Posted by randydance062449
Sometimes the edge is warped and sometimes it is the spine or both. The solution is the same as I mentioned.
I hope I answered your question.:)
If you have a webcam then we could have a video honing session if you wish.
This seems to be a pretty critical point.Quote:
Originally Posted by radiofree
Randy is a great source of info - and I think the first thing that he mentioned was to lap the stones. That beginning point can't be overlooked. You just won't have any good results if the stone is not flat and the edges smoothed. Let us know how it goes!
Thanks for your suggestions. I just have one more question: what is this I keep reading about rounding the edges of the hone? Am I misreading this?
So...I'll need a 220 or 320grit and something flat, like plate glass or a marble floor tile...?
Yes, rounding the edges a bit (just a bit) protects them - less likely to chip
Glass plate is fine, I just bought a marble tile from Lowes because this was the easiest and fastest I could do.
Most people use higher grit after the rough stuff, too
Cheers
Ivo
Great, thanks.
So, what grit would you recommend for use on a Norton 4/8K?
after that, I'm off to the hardware store...
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After 320 I'd go at least 600, maybe 800 too.
Some guys also use 1000. I have done it, but then decided it's too much hassle, plus I always finish on something finer than the 8K, so I decided I don't really need the 1000
Good luck
Ivo
Thanks Ivo.
A sharp edge on a hone can cause microchips in the razors edge so just slightly round them off.Quote:
Originally Posted by radiofree
radiofree,
I believe that Norton recommends 400 grit for the 4K and 600 grit for the 8K. The grit of the lapping material (lapper) does not change the grit of the stone (lappee), all that happens is that you remove the high spots down to the elevation (depression?) of lowest point on the stone surface. The texture left by the coarser grit of the lapping medium simply allows for swarf gathering from the sharpening process and a leveling process that does not polish or glaze the surface of the stone to the point it will no longer work as an effective hone. Norton also sells a lapping plate of very rigidly held aluminum oxide particles of about 220 grit and recommends it for use on all their waterstones. I've tried one and it does work very fast. I've also tried the wet or dry paper on a small granite surface plate. That process also works very fast. Both plate or paper need to be kept very wet while lapping to carry of all the material worn off the softer stone so clogging those fine pores can be avoided.
good luck, Bruce
Randy makes a good point when he says the factory bevel is probably off. I have only worked on a half dozen or so new Dovos, but all the ones I've seen had a bevel that was too steep. The hone doesn't make contact with the edge of the razor, just the upper part of the bevel. If you find yourself honing for a while and not seeing any change in the edge, this could be a cause.
Good luck,
Josh
Bruce, thanks for your explanation. JoshEarl, I think that's what seems to be happening: the bevel is too "steep" and causing the edge itself to not make full contact with the stone. I'll get back to everyone and let you guys know my progress after a good lapping.
I don't think anyone mentioned drawing a grid on the hone with a pencil , before you lap it . Lap your hone until all the lines are gone and it will be flat . (I learned that here , on this forum) Good luck with your honing . .....Dave
So...I lapped the stone. Remembering (I learned that about the pencil from this forum, too, Dave. Thanks!) to draw the grid. I used one variation, though. I was unable to find (the hardware store didn't have it) a flat tile, so I attached the sandpaper to a hand sander with clamps and moved over the stone in a figure 8 motion. I then honed 40 times on the 4K and 25 on the 8K. I shaved. I DID notice a change...better shaving. I'm getting there. Not great, but better. I'll just have to keep at it.
I'm glad to hear it's getting better for you . I would try 15 very light passes on the 8k and see what happens . BTW , I use 600 grit wet/dry paper on a piece of 1/4" plate glass , and liberal amounts of water when I lap my hone
Use your kitchen countertop instead of the power sander. It will give a flatter end result.
i'll admit i winced when i heard the words power sander and stone in the same sentence
You winced? :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by edk442
My lightning thought was "How TF did I miss that a power sander is to be used and did not recommend something else?" - even though, to be honest, I have no experience with power sanders... Maybe they can work? :D
Cheers
Ivo
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....Power Sander .....Arg Arg Arg....
Honing is not rocket science and you can do it. First, are you using magnification to see what you're doing to the edge? That is by far the best way I know of to better understand what you're doing to the steel. The Radio Shack illuminated magnifier for $15 is perfect for the job or you can use a 10x loupe or an OptiVisor. The Dovo should not take that long to get it from "factory edge" to "shave ready". Where are you located? If you're in or near Massachusetts, stop by and I'll help.
Did I say "power sander"? I mean a "hand held" sander: the kind with the no-slip rubber padding. No moving parts.
I DO need to pick up a microscope. Thanks for the feedback.
Howard,
Thanks for the offer to help. The timing is bad: I used to live in Providence but just moved to New York. I'll pick up the micro and perhaps I'll make some more headway-- I've already noticed an improvement since I lapped the stone.
When I buy a new Dovo I do one 4K stroke if needed and 20 or so strokes on 8k. I find the bevels perfect, hopefully they haven't gone down hill in the last year. :shrug:
I thought of another possibility on my experience with Dovos: Several of the ones I've honed have come from guys who tried honing them on their own and couldn't get them sharp. So maybe I've just had problem children sent my way... Or maybe they were just messed up from newbie honing attempts...
I'm not knocking the quality of these razors at all--the steel is great. It's just been my impression, based on the very limited number I've worked on, that the factory bevel is a little too steep. (I did buy a Classic 6/8 recently for my own rotation, and I noticed the same thing. Mine took a fine edge after I adjusted the bevel.)
Take it with a grain of salt. :)
Josh
Get a coticule and use that after the Norton 8k and then strop. Are you using magnification? That will tell you a lot about what you're doing.