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so i guess i,m going to have to start honing soon so here,s the question..
what stone would be the easiest for a newbie to start honing with? belgian blue and yellow or the norton combi or is there an easier stone ,there seems to be so many options available, barber hones, pasted strops,jap stones ect each have their plus points i would imagine.
so any pointers please gents thanks
tony:confused:
Tony
I started on a norton 4/8 2 years ago and it was a great stone to learn on. Pastes and Belgians aside...you should be able to get a razor shave ready on the norton and strop alone. I found that once I came off the 8k side, giving the razor a couple hundred laps on the strop really smooths out the edge.
I recently switched to the belgian stones and am still in the process of experimenting, but I would say if you have the extra cash to pick up a yellow coticule it's worth the money. Its a great polishing stone and made a huge difference in the quality of my edges.
JR
thanks jr, i,m sorry but do you mean pick up a yellow coticule as well as or instead of a norton. thanks
Tony - Sorry, just to clarify...i meant the yellow coticule would be a good finishing stone to use between the norton and the strop. Lynn has a great DVD which demostrates his pyramid method on the norton, followed by 20 laps on the coticule to achieve a very sharp edge. There is really a lot of experimentation out there, but the norton is really all you need.
I'm sure others will chime in here, but most will concur that the norton is a great stone all-in-one for starting out and working on your technique.
I went the belgian route when I started and have come to love them. Thanks to LX_Emergency, Bruno, and now JoshEarl, there's a lot of support and expertise here for how to use them as working stones (many here use them only as finishers, but that's a different thing).
But I think there's something to be said for starting on a Norton; it's still sort of the standard.
tonyspurs,
The answer of Norton waterstones to all our questions both personal and scientific is semi adequate for me. When reading the various discussions about what stone to get for sharpening razors, I decided to follow the advice of most and ordered the Norton 220/1K and 4K/8K combos. Recently, I jumped into honing with both feet and took a old razor with a nasty nick and honed it down to where the nick disappeared and then worked up the grit path. I noticed that the appearance of the scratch pattern from both the well lapped 4K and 8K sides of my hone seemed identical through the Radio Shack hand held microscope. Only when I took the razor to my coticule stones could a see a reduction in the apparent scratch depth from the Norton stones. With a very light touch on the dry yellow coticule, I got a smooth appearing bevel - and one that shaved. The Nortons for me have not worked on finishing the edge. But I'm just starting in at this process and know not much of what I speak.
Bruce
I started out with the Jap stones just for the money sake. When talking with FireStart, he told me that if I bought them they take a bit more work on the razor, as they don't cut as well as the Norton Combo.
Once I bought the Norton Combo, I could use the Jap Stones (4K, 8K) for light finishing on the blades edge. This seems to work out very nicely. So, if you are strapped for cash, then the Jap stones will work just fine, though you need to modify the pyramid a bit. It will take a bit longer but give good results after you strop it as well.
Hope that helps.
I'm in the minority here, but I really didn't care for my norton...in fact it bordered on disliking it. I didn't like the combination aspect (which some people love) and found myelf wanting separate stones. I also didn't like that you have to soak it. Last but not least, the thing is huge. As I got better with honing i found myself wanting a narrower stone in the 6"x2" range. (again, another aspect some people like). I ended up returning my stone (the beauty of leevalley). In the lower grits (for honing out nicks and establishing a bevel) the norton would be fine and even recommended, but for finishing work i'd opt for the coticule
so they way i see it is i need a blue and yellow belgian norton from tokyo?:tu
my lynn abrams dvd has just this minute arrived along with a little filly and a nice charge from those lovely people at customs and excise http://coys.sportsmaestros.com/style...iboronz_30.gif
so i,ll have a look at that soon might have a better idea when i see them in action
As a newbie, I'm not really enjoying the Norton either. The coticule "I get" and am having great results with it. I'm going to keep experimenting with the Nortons as I'm sure it's my technique. Given that the Norton is a workhorse stone, I figure that it's something I should really learn.Quote:
Originally Posted by edk442
When doing pyramids, the flipping the stone and rewetting thing was annoying to me. I have a 1K/4K and 4K/8K. That way the 1K is available for bigger jobs, and then have both stones available to go back and forth between instead of flip flopping. This made pyramids faster and more convenient. Not that I reach for these stones much anymore.
Given the number of variables in the honing process, you want to start with quality hones. A Norton 4k/8k is a good one to start with and at $62 won't break the bank and you've got a 4k stone and an 8k stone. A coticule bout is another choice which, at $55 is another choice but not as much surface area to work on as an 8x3.
thanks guys after watching lynns dvd i,m gonna get a norton combo for now, and who knows maybe santa could fetch me a belgian coticule around xmas time! and a bismark and a silver tip brush and some.............................................
Sounds like a good plan, but something tells me that Santa might be comming a little early this year :DQuote:
Originally Posted by tonyspurs
Yes, once you get the bug, Santa does come a lot in the year. As well as the Easter Bunny, hell even St. Paddy has brought me a 'gift'Quote:
Originally Posted by heavydutysg135
I have gotten outstanding edges from the Norton 4K/8K combo - a few times. I have also gotten many good (but not outsanding) edges. Personally, not crazy for it, though. Can't remember when the Norton didn't work well enough, except for some Dorkos... Most other brands - the Norton worked OK but I still go to other finishers.
I myself prefer to use a Belgian natural for both *normal work* and as a finisher. In fact, my top finishers may be Eschers, but the Coticule is probably used just as much. Both get followed by Chromium. This gives me much smoother-feeling (vs. smooth-looking) edges than the 8K. I have also bought a Japanese stone which should work as high as a 40K synthetic stone but cannot say much because I need more time on it.
I have this quirk - I prefer natural stones to synthetics just as a principle. Same with brush and razor handles - horn, bone, ivory, wood always make me happier than synthetics.
Cheers
Ivo
EDIT: for a new convert to honing - the Norton is a great start as it's consistent. Belgians and other natural stones exhibit variations, etc. - but if you buy from a respected guy like Howard (ThePerfectEdge) - you are guaranteed to get top Select grade, and outstanding customer service. All in all - I think your choice to start with the Norton is the generally accepted wisdom on this site. Other hones can always follow it
Hey... I celebrated the first Monday of this week by getting some custom scales done for a pair of Wapienica's. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by pilothaz
I celebrated Monday with the purchase of a new silvertip Brush, and I bought another one that previous Friday :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianP
Now I am working on my celebration for going to England with a blade from JoshEarl, and getting scales done by Joe.
You can definitely get a shave ready blade from the Norton 4k/8k combo. I think why they [Norton 4/8] are popular with "honemiesters" is they save time setting a good bevel on a blade. You can do it with a variety of natural stones but in most cases it will take you a lot longer.
If you did the whole process with say a Belgian yellow, it would take a really long time, but in the end you'll have a well polished blade that would (we hope) provide you with a great shave.
Instead if you start out with the Norton and finish with the Belgian yellow, your yellow is going overwrite the striations cut into the blade by the Norton. In the end the blade will look/feel like it would have if you started off with a yellow, but you will have done it in much less time.
it's not a quirk to like naturals over synthetics...that was another peave of mine with the norton. open up the case and you get the most chemical smell ever...just way TOO sythetic.
personally i like syntethics that act and feel like naturals. of course i would love to have a nice natural and i've asked a few questions here and there about them, but i can't decipher japanese (and translators are no better) so without actually taking a razor to the stone i'd have no idea what i was getting. plus the cost for a good japanese natural is too rich for my blood. (though i can only imagine what a 40k natural might feel like)