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As of right now, I've got the norton 4k/8k and a 2 sided wide paddle strop from tony with a .5 diamond paste on 1 side and a .25 on the other. I was looking at throwing another stone in the mix between the 8k and the .5 micron paste and saw the shapton 15k. How would the shapton 15k compare to the belgian coticle?
Any help would be greatly appreciated
it's definately finer and will give you a sharper edge, but i'd hazard a guess and say the coticule gives a smoother edge. the shapton pro stones are also harder and less forgiving if your technique isn't spot on
the .5 paste is finer than the coticle and the shapton right?
If I don't use the coticle or some other finishing stone, would I get the same effect from more repetitions on the .5 paste and moving to the .25?
Folks tell me that once they use the coticule they get rid of their Shaptons and that has happened about 5 times over the past year. They say the Shapton overhones the razor. The grit size doesn't tell the whole story about the shave readiness of the edge and it's not a linear relationship although honing is a progressive process. Folks who have used a variety of stones tend to feel that the coticule hones more like a 10k stone rather than the 8k which it is rated at by the Belgians. See Tim Zowadas photos on this and you'll see why! There is an optimal balance between the size of the scratches left by stones and the shininess of the edge. Just because it's shiny doesn't mean it actually cuts hairs better! In fact it's just the opposite. Those who have looked at the photos and dry honed on the coticule and then shaved have been disappointed. They then go back to the slurry method and their shave ready edge is back! Traditionally, barbers keep their razors sharp by using the coticule when the razor starts to pull and then a natural leather strop. This has worked well for the past 400 years or so and I recommend it based on my experience as well.
but it looks like the 8" x 3" is about $175 so I'm not quite in the market for that yet. Do you still use the pastes after the coticle? I think in Lynn's video he used the 4k/8k pyramid, moved to the coticle, and than the pastes.
You don't really need a monster 8x3" coticule. I have a 6x2" that works very well, and I do more honing than most guys will. Actually, my first coticule was only 1.5x4" and cost only $40 or so. If you will just be honing razors for yourself, that's very adequate. :)
Whether you go to pastes or not is a matter of individual preference. Some guys like to go all the way to .25 microns. I stop after the coticule, because it leaves a very nice edge and because my beard doesn't like the edges left by the finer pastes.
A cheap way to experiment is to get some balsa wood at a craft store and smear thin layers of paste on that. If you decide you don't like it, you haven't sunk much money into the deal.
Josh
After my Norton Combo, I've used a Shapton 10,000 very sparingly! Anything more than moderate use will easily overhone my edges. I've also used Chromium Oxide paste to great effect in refining my edges to a sharp and comfortable finish. I have recently been omitting the 0.25µ Diamond paste as a modest final step, but have been getting edges which aren't quite as fine as I was when I was using that last step, so I'll likely go back to it soon.
I've never had a good coticule to compare myself, but the buzz seems to be that the Chromium Oxide and the coticule give a similar finish to the edge. It's just that some guys have an easier time with and/or prefer one over the other.
X
where is the best place to buy a coticule?
I picked up a natural blue/yellow combo a couple weeks back from Howard @:Quote:
Originally Posted by saladbar2000
http://www.theperfectedge.com/
Really nice looking stone and great feel to the blade after use. And he's very knowledgeable about these stones.
I'm thinking about getting the 2"x6". I think 2" is wide enough for my tosuke and I can do the x pattern stroke on everything else. Is the $18.00 Cotigura Rubbing Stone the same as the nagura stone lynn was talking about? If not what are the pros and cons of each?
the 2" will be wide enough for the tosuke and a great width for razors (just bought one myself) the cotigura is is a small piece of coticule whereas the nagura is a piece of chalk stone. i too wondered if nagura could be used (i have one) after watching lynn use one on his dvd. most ppl say to use a coticule rubbing stone on the coticule...after reading the coticule chronicles i decided i didn't need the cotigura.
I could probably get the $6 gold nagura stone from japan woodworker and use that on the yellow coticule right? I don't think it could hurt the stone any. I'm guessing lynn must have used his....I don't even know how many times
The cotigura rubbing stone is great if you plan to use a blue Belgian hone in your progression. If you'll be using the coticule after the Norton, the cotigura is optional.
Right now, I don't use any slurry on my coticule, although I plan to try a very light slurry and see if I like the results. Howard recommends using a slurry. :shrug:
Josh
I guess if there is anything worth doing, its worth doing right, eh? I'm thinking I'll get the 2 x 6" with the cotigura. I can try with the slurry and without. I think the only way to figure out what works for you is to experiment and to do that I will need the tools.
It should be a done deal. Just put in an order with Howard
You can always use a small diamond hone or some good wet and dry to produce some slurry as is often recommended with very fine grit japanese stones - since nagura slurry can be too rough.
so a small diamond stone will create a finer slurry than the cotigura stone? I went with the cotigura instead of the nagura stone.
the idea of using a diamond stone is that the coticule won't abrade the diamond stone so you end up with pure coticule slurry which is what you'll have if you use the cotigura (since you're rubbing coticule on coticule)
DMT makes a really small hone that Howard sells for like $8. It's about 3/4 inch wide and 4 inches long. Is this what you were referring to for making slurry? That would probably work very well....
Josh
Any diamond would do as long as it's of a decent quality and isn't likely to lose particles. If you're using it almost purely for slurry it would be best to get a small one.
The diamond will just produce a slurry of the same fineness as the hone you're using so can be ideal i.e. it will produce 15k on a 15k hone, 30k on a 30k hone and 8k on a 8k hone.
I saw that howard from perfect edge sells an artificial nagura stone or prep stone from norton to use on the norton waterstones. Has anybody heard of making a slurry on the norton and would there be any kind of benefit?
If so, it sounds like a small diamond stone could be used on all kinds of stones
the norton prep stones speeds the cutting action fo the norton which isn't all that necesary as it's already a pretty fast stone. Not sure it it gives a better finish or not
I think if I'm finishing on a coticule followed by some pastes than that wouldn't a huge factor
i think you'll be set with the coticule and pastes