Circles ?

Good Day Gents,

Now that I have your attention with the title :rofl2: I have a question, I have always honed useing circles as in I start off on each stone with two sets of circles and finish with X's and always end each session on that stone like it's the last one i will be using, another words I treat it like it's my final finisher.

My progression is 4K, 8K, 12K and JNAT and if the edge is good and has a good bevel I normally can get done in about 15 mins but today as I was reading thru some info I see where some do circles a certain way as in with the edge going away from you on the hone they go CW and edge coming towards you it's CCW and that got me thinking does it really matter as I have never really givin it much thought but today tried it and it seemed kinda different as I honestly had not paid much attention to circle direction so now the question is does it matter, after my session today I did my usual HHT and it seemed to be the same in the 3+/4 but we all know the shave is what matters.

I only do circles at the low end and only if I need to remove steel

I ALWAYS do the circles the same direction as a X stroke, Edge to Spine


I don't know if it matters never tried it the other way :)

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

I only do circles at the low end and only if I need to remove steel

I ALWAYS do the circles the same direction as a X stroke, Edge to Spine


I don't know if it matters never tried it the other way :)

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G,

So you always are rolling the cirlce towards the spine so that would be if you are pushing the blade away from you it would be going CW ? and going CCW coming towards you and whats the harm doing circles with each stone, the main reason I do it is it cuts my time on the stones down.

Circles at the lower stones helps set / establish a bevel.
If I’m in a rush to get through the stones, then I don’t bother picking them up to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Hirlau

Circles at the lower stones helps set / establish a bevel.
If I’m in a rush to get through the stones, then I don’t bother picking them up to begin with.

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I used to get caught up in the honeing hynotism if you want to call it that and would spend an hour or two caressing the hones then as I started doing it more and more I decided to streamline my process, I do still ocassionally have a long session but try to limit it to about 30 mins max and this is on a blade of good condition from bevel to finish, i do get a razor in from time to time that someone has tried to hone and it looks like it was done on a bench grinder and this of course requires alot more time if I can even save it as i don't have a way to do a regrind.

When I change a stone surface, I usually start with a few circles or half-laps at the start, to knock off any burr or deflection that might be there prior to this. As for the circles, it is done heel to toe, edge-leading, in a counter-clockwise fashion as the blade is brought towards me and in a clockwise fashion as the blade departs from me. Haven't really given it much thought otherwise, it's just what comes natural to me.

The way I see it, it's a circular motion. At one point the edge will be leading, then as it comes around the edge will trail for a bit before the direction changes and it becomes a pushing motion again. That said, as long as the pressure/torque are focused on the edge it really shouldn't matter whether they're CW or CCW going to or from you. In theory at least the result should be the same.

:beer1:

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Originally Posted by Jnatcat

G,

So you always are rolling the cirlce towards the spine so that would be if you are pushing the blade away from you it would be going CW ? and going CCW coming towards you and whats the harm doing circles with each stone, the main reason I do it is it cuts my time on the stones down.

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I will try and do a fast vid tomorrow

I had a customer ask me to vid their razor honing so I will try and do the two birds with one stone thing hehehe

It doesn't matter which direction you do circles in. A circular honing stroke in either direction will produce random, non-directional (circular, overlapping) scratches. The exception would be if you used more or less pressure on a certain part of the circular stroke.

I like to circles on 1k-5k stones and 8-12k I won't use circles. On Jnats though even if I am on my final tomo I will do some circles (I have been using jnats 3-6 months maybe not sure). My circles though on jnat are sort of like half strokes. I feel like circles is okay when close to finishing on jnat but I don't really like circles when I am about to finish on like a coticule.

I generally do circles CW when moving away from me and CCW when returning, but I doubt that makes a difference.

If I need to remove a lot of metal when setting a bevel, I may do 40 circles away and 40 circles returning. Then I will drop back to 20 circles, then 10 circles, then 9,8,7,...,3,2,1 followed by X-strokes with lighter pressure toward the end. If I don't need to remove much metal, I may start at 10 -15 circles.

On mid-range stones, I start at 10 circles, followed by X-strokes to insure scratches from previous stones are fully replaced with finer scratches/stria.

When finishing a razor that has gone through an earlier progression, I use X-strokes only. However, if I am refreshing a razor using the finishing hone only, I start with 5 circles and then work my way down 5,4,3,2,1 and then finish with a few light X-strokes.

Depending upon the finishing hone I am using, I will lubricate it either with plain water, water plus a drop of liquid hand soap, or thin shaving lather. Occasionally, I have used Norton water-soluble honing solution.

That is just my usual method, but sometimes I use ax strokes rather than circles. Alex Gilmore recommends using scissors strokes in addition to X-strokes, but I have not yet done so.

I do not think it matters how you do the strokes as long as you work the entire length of the blade and you use the same number of strokes and similar pressure on both sides of the blade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

I will try and do a fast vid tomorrow

I had a customer ask me to vid their razor honing so I will try and do the two birds with one stone thing hehehe

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Been waiting for a long time to see you appear in a video again :)

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Originally Posted by Mikali

Been waiting for a long time to see you appear in a video again :)

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Thats not creepy in any way...:roflmao

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Originally Posted by markbignosekelly

Thats not creepy in any way...:roflmao

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:banghead:

LOL

Maybe the next outing I will trying skipping circles on the higher grits and see what happens.

Since learning it from Lynn's 4k bevel-setting video, I've often done circles on the lower grits (1 and 4k), especially if the bevel is a ways off to save time, and sometimes a few at 8 before progressing to X-strokes. I sometimes also do them on my translucent and surgical black Arks to save time (and lessen the chances of a wrong edge strike on such a hard stone). You're mostly just burnishing anyway on a finely-polished Arkansas, so again, the circles spare me a few hundred laps on WD-40. Of course I always follow-up with progressively lighter x-strokes until the edge is just right.

I use circles at every grit. Then 10 strokes no flip, each side. Then I go to a normal routine.
Pressure is changed with each increased grit, and water runs up the bevel face faster when this routine is employed.

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Originally Posted by ultrasoundguy2003

I use circles at every grit. Then 10 strokes no flip, each side. Then I go to a normal routine.
Pressure is changed with each increased grit, and water runs up the bevel face faster when this routine is employed.

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On your 10 strokes no flip are they 1/2 strokes as in up and back ?

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Originally Posted by Jnatcat

On your 10 strokes no flip are they 1/2 strokes as in up and back ?

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I dont get overly specific. I watch water if I have enough water to run a full stroke ,Yes Sir I do.
You ever torque and have so little water it sqeaks? I have not good.
Science says the water/ slurry interface when reaching equi thickness runs up the face. You dilute and what happens?
Your back to pushing water/slurry. After strokes mix runs up face.
What is the longest time blade is off hone? Simple question.
Its on the flip, remove the time off the hone speed the process, especially in the beginning phase.
Simple math states equal time/ pressure on hone speeds process.
Once dialed in, then return to equal strokes bilaterally.
If one side water runs up face, and opposite side pushes water. Adjust overcome, conquer. More strokes on lacking side. Till water runs up each side equally. No scope can capture this.
Stuff I stole from listening to Glenn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ultrasoundguy2003

I dont get overly specific. I watch water if I have enough water to run a full stroke ,Yes Sir I do.
You ever torque and have so little water it sqeaks? I have not good.
Science says the water/ slurry interface when reaching equi thickness runs up the face. You dilute and what happens?
Your back to pushing water/slurry. After strokes mix runs up face.
What is the longest time blade is off hone? Simple question.
Its on the flip, remove the time off the hone speed the process, especially in the beginning phase.
Simple math states equal time/ pressure on hone speeds process.
Once dialed in, then return to equal strokes bilaterally.
If one side water runs up face, and opposite side pushes water. Adjust overcome, conquer. More strokes on lacking side. Till water runs up each side equally. No scope can capture this.
Stuff I stole from listening to Glenn.

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I to watch water and do my best to have it come over the edge rather than push it and I to look for the same on both up/down stroke as that tells me the edge is usually good along with the proper torque on the edge if it evenly rides up about the same on both sides, my current method is not really paying attention to whether the circles are CCW or CW and I just do what my brain and hands tell me to but never gave it any thought on not doing circles on the higher grits as it's what I have always done and the edges are very acceptable to me and gives me a great shave, I think I am always fascinated to try other methods of honing to see if something yields better results over my current method.