"Natural Whetsone" from ToolShop

I thought some of you might get a kick out of this one.

I ordered a "Natural Whetstone" from www.toolshop.de in Germany. I got it today. Upon opening it, I discovered it had a small chip out of one corner, about 13mm x 8mm x 2mm(deep). It was on the camphered side. I wasn't real concerned, but I though I'd let Stefan at Tool Shop know that it was there when it was wrapped. There were no loose chips in the inner package, meaning whomever inspected it or wrapped it missed the missing chip. I just figured the owner or manager would want to know these things. :thinking: He didn't seem too concerned. His response:

"These used to have chips out of them. - and that these are more of a feature than a bug"

:roflmao :roflmao :roflmao :roflmao I couldn't stop laughing. I never heard of such a thing.

Oh, well.........:shrug:

I used it right away on a razor I was having a little difficulty cleaning up the bevel on. It came with a small stone for slurry. I used it between my 4K Blue Belgium and the Yellow Coticul. It seemed to work pretty well, as I did, eventually, get a great shave from the razor.

Question? If this is, indeed, a stone somewhat similiar to a Thuringen, would this be the order I would use this stone (between the 4K & the 8K)?

Steve

Steve,
This is not unusual for this type of stone, much as the store owner told you. I'm sure these come to him pre-packed and they go out without any further inspection. Pretty typical retail fare.

Almost every stone I receive, boxed of loose has chips around it. of course I lap and round all of mine so customers rarely see this part. Some stones simply have chips on the edges that cannot be worked out and if I was selling it they would be described.

Sadly with most retail, one "pays their money and takes their chances" <g> It is the performance though that counts in the long run but I would want mine to look right too.

Tony

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zepplin

Question? If this is, indeed, a stone somewhat similiar to a Thuringen, would this be the order I would use this stone (between the 4K & the 8K)?

Steve

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If it is a Thuringen you should be able to use it as a final polishing hone. I'm not sure you need sth between 4K and 8K Norton.

If it is a Thuringen the slurry should have red garnets in it (put some slurry on a glass slide and check under the mike).

Yes, this is a Thuringen-type. You should not have to use a coticule after it.

I ordered a 20x5 myself to compare to the other stones I have. Will give an update when I have more experience.

Cheers
Ivo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by izlat

I ordered a 20x5 myself to compare to the other stones I have. Will give an update when I have more experience.

Ivo

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Thanks, Ivo

* I'd appreciate your input about this stone when you get yours. It seems coarser than the Coticule, but, hey, what do I know? :shrug:

Steve

Interesting, Steve -

did you mean coarse to look at / touch or the way it feels on the razor's edge when honing? Or the effect you feel on the edge when shaving? These are all different and may or may not correlate very well, I think

Unfortunately, I will have to wait for mine a bit - because it was shipped to my parents in Germany. My daughter is visiting and when she comes back here for school she will bring the stone (=early August). I wasn't even in the market for these, but she's there anyway, so it seemed a good opportunity. Especially in light of the fact that these supposedly cut faster than other Thuringens. I just like playing with different hones :D

If it turns out too similar to some of my other hones something will go up for sale :shrug:

Cheers
Ivo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by izlat

Interesting, Steve -

did you mean coarse to look at / touch or the way it feels on the razor's edge when honing? Or the effect you feel on the edge when shaving? These are all different and may or may not correlate very well, I think


Ivo

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Coarse to touch and the feel of it as I hone. I know that feel will differ from each razor's needs, but it really feel coarser than the Coticule. In fact, it seems coarser than my 4K Blue Belgium. :shrug: The slurry is very easy to create, much more than both Belgiums, it seems. The Coticule is much smoother and seems harder. I just don't know. I've only done one razor. - a beautiful Ebay special that has been in my rotation that needed some clean up. I used the 4K 1st, the Mueller Thuringen, and finished with the Coticule, + 100 laps on the strop. The shave was very good to excellent! I have some shavers in my herd that are too wonderful for words and nothing can compare to them, except my new Wapi.....and I am stilll blown away at how great that razor shaves. :bow

Regards,

Steve

Certainly coarser than the dearer lighter in colour thuringen.

Well...I just honed up an Ebay special, and shaved with it.

This time I used the Mueller Thuringen last for polishing (after the Coticule). I need to be very clear that I was not really satisfied with the bevel. This is a skill I need to really work on! When I have a good nice straight even bevel, the rest falls in to place easily. Having said that, the M. Thuringen did seem to smooth out the bevel pretty well even under the circumstances with the bevel.

The shave was good (I always get good shaves), but I had to work a little too hard on it. In all fairness, I need to get a bit more agressive with establishing a good bevel. Then I can probably evaluate my sharpening stones, which I will use, and in what order, in the sharpening progression.

My jury is still out on this stone.

Regards,

Steve

I'm already loosing track of which stone is which and what one we are talking about <g>.

Does the Tool Shop stone come marked with any labels or boxed with a label?

The stones I know of, al similar in makeup but from slightly different sources are the Manufactum "Muller" stones which are boxed and labeled and the same type Kees sells on eBay, the MST Muller "Original Thuringens" which come in new white boxes and the MST Muller "Natural Whetstones" (Hunsruecks really) which come wrapped in cellophane and with labels.

I have one of the Manufactum/Kees/ Muller stones and it seems identical to real MST Muller Thuringens I have here. The MST Hunsrueck is darker, harder and more mottled in appearance and faster cutting. I see not real difference in grit size though.

Tony

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony Miller

Does the Tool Shop stone come marked with any labels or boxed with a label?

The stones I know of, al similar in makeup but from slightly different sources are the Manufactum "Muller" stones which are boxed and labeled and the same type Kees sells on eBay, the MST Muller "Original Thuringens" which come in new white boxes and the MST Muller "Natural Whetstones" (Hunsruecks really) which come wrapped in cellophane and with labels.

I have one of the Manufactum/Kees/ Muller stones and it seems identical to real MST Muller Thuringens I have here. The MST Hunsrueck is darker, harder and more mottled in appearance and faster cutting. I see not real difference in grit size though.

Tony

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It comes paper wrapped with a lable that says:

Muller's Water Grindstones

for razors and particular sensitive instruments
-Using with water only-

Keep away from oil!

Then there is some stuff in German...

The stone is dark grey in color, with a slurry stone.

Steve

My MST muller original didn't come in a new white box, Tony? It was labeled with an old label that looked years old - maybe from the 50s or 60s?

Murph,
MST had a limited number still in original packaging, boxes in some cases, labels only in others. These were sawn many years ago. There are some newer stones, quarried a long time ago and recently sawn without labels. I have a few of those here now, some nera perfect other with tiny chips, slight color variants, etc... they hone very nicely. Mine are always honed and rounded before sale though.

The Toolshop stone sounds like those from the other Muller, not MST.

Tony

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony Miller

The Toolshop stone sounds like those from the other Muller, not MST.

Tony

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I agree with Tony. The other Mueller translates the German word Abziehstein as grindstone.

Natural stones and artificial stones chip. That's the truth of the matter. A chip on the corner of a stone doesn't affect performance but I would round it out with a diamond stone so you don't accidentally catch the blade on it and so it doesn't chip out further. I wouldn't call it a feature.