Using 1K, 4K, 8K, then....

Something I've been wondering for years... As with most, I'll set a bevel using a 240 grit stone or glass and then start to get things right starting with a 1K up to the 12K. After that I seem to vary depending upon the blade, it's quality and shape, and how I feel. Question at hand for me is what is a good "normal" that I can then vary from as needed?

After the 12K I have an Escher, 0.5 CROx on leather, 0.5 and 1.0 diamond spray on leather, a few good cuticles from the quarry in Belgium, felt, mesh, and all other manner of polishing stones and materials. My normal right now after the 12K is to go to the Escher, then CROx, felt, and leather strop. At times if something seems "off" after the Escher I'll do some laps on 1.0 diamond then 0.5 diamond then CRox, and felt/leather. But it seems there has to be a less variable method.

So if you have all or most of the above, what's your preferred go-to routine when starting from bevel-set?

With restoration honing I use the 600grit rubbing stone on my Chosera 1K. For regular honing just the 1K and skip the brown slurry. Then 5K, then 8K Naniwa. That goes for most any blade. This is my first divide. I have a few pre 1850 Sheffield’s that I don’t go too far with, in fact most of them have 8K norton edges on them. They seem to really like that. They also get refreshed on a cerium oxide felt on occasion. Most of my modern steel I will go to the Naniwa 10K and then a natural of some sort. On occasion I will use the 12K and then the natural. Most of the naturals are not going to really improve a 12K edge and I am often concerned about overdevelopment of the edge. It is my theory that if you over develop the edge it winds up not lasting very long. The majority of my hone time is one the 1K and 5K.

I'm not sure that it matters much how you get to 12K, as long as the bevel is good.
It seems to me that it's mostly a matter of preference and efficiency...whatever
works for you. I use Chosera 1K, Naniwa 3-5-8-12

Lately, for finishing, I've settled on a combination that seems to work very well on
hard steel, such as Hart, Portland, Friodur. I haven't tried the same routine on "softer"
razors yet, but here you go:

12K - dark blue escher - black/translucent Arkansas (just a few laps) - 0.5 CrOx on
hard felt - linen - Roo hide.

Today I shaved with a Friodur which was honed by gssixgun, so you can bet that
the bevel was well set. All it needed was a touch-up. I used the above progression,
and I swear that it's maybe the best edge that I've ever been able to put on a razor:
super sharp, really smooth, with no stainless steel harshness. It was a very close,
irritation-free shave. For me, anyway, it was a step up from "normal."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AirColorado

As with most, I'll set a bevel using a 240 grit stone or glass[.]

---

Not sure about a 240 grit stone or glass from the start for so-called bevel-setting. What has consistently worked for me with water-stones over the past couple of years has been a 1k/3k Suehiro combo stone followed by a coticule used with water only followed by a Welsh purple slate used with water only or with sewing machine oil. Then it's off to a plain barber's leather strop.

I use 1k, 4k, 8k, a natural hone and either straight to a plain leather strop or to a paddle strop with crox, then feox and then plain leather.

I've used a few inexpensive natural hones but the one I've now settled on was sold as Tsushima Ocean Blue for $30 in a small hand-held size.

Most here would say 1k is a bevel setter & anything below is restoration but there will always be slight variability at the finishing stages due to the differences between razors.
Generally I can finish on a Gok 20 or a Nakayama Asagi or a combination of both. Having 2-3 choices at end game is a pretty small variability, IMHO.

I normally start at the 4K level and then 8 and 12k then one of a few different finishers but to be honest after the 12k it’s a fine line, if the edge needs a bit more kick to get it in line at the bevel stage I do a few Atoma 400 slurries off the C1k and finish up with water and some light strokes and then go to the 4k

Escher to crox.
I would have thought that Escher would be the finish , if all the previous steps were perfected .

I use the 3 k chosera for bevel setting and the 1k chosera only if I really need to speed things up. After using natural hones I really don’t need to since in invested in to the Gok 20 k . Great finisher that leaves nothing but smooth edges.

Here's pics of my progression in order from B. set to finisher.

Attachment 288387

Attachment 288388

Attachment 288389

Are you using milk on any of those?

Har ! I know that video.

Been doing a LOT of research lately and you likely have a point there I can use. I may start bevel setting on a 1K and then move up from there. It may be that the lower grit bevel setting is leaving too many gouges that I'm missing. Good call!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brontosaurus

Not sure about a 240 grit stone or glass from the start for so-called bevel-setting. What has consistently worked for me with water-stones over the past couple of years has been a 1k/3k Suehiro combo stone followed by a coticule used with water only followed by a Welsh purple slate used with water only or with sewing machine oil. Then it's off to a plain barber's leather strop.

---

Another great perspective. I learned on the Escher to completely finish an edge (up to the felt anyway) but I must have worked a blade at some point that just wouldn't take the Escher's input. So I added the CrOx and diamond to get there. Could be that I just have to get to the Escher, do that correctly, and then go to felt. If the blade isn't right then backtrack to 4K or 8K and see if that's where the problem started. More to toy with for a while I guess. Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JOB15

Escher to crox.
I would have thought that Escher would be the finish , if all the previous steps were perfected .

---

If only! LMAO

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MedicineMan

Here's pics of my progression in order from B. set to finisher.

Attachment 288387

Attachment 288388

Attachment 288389

---

You have a link? Sounds like one I'd enjoy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Har ! I know that video.

---

Here ya go.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zD2z2vJEpKQ

I found myself watching that video through my fingers.

It made me laugh.

:rofl2:

^^^You gotta be kidding^^^ :rofl2:

Pete <:-}

Thanks Utopian! I heard about that vid after I posted, but hadn't seen it yet.
"Tap the blade a few times on the brick just to loosen up the metal"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PaulKidd

I'm not sure that it matters much how you get to 12K, as long as the bevel is good.
It seems to me that it's mostly a matter of preference and efficiency...whatever
works for you. I use Chosera 1K, Naniwa 3-5-8-12

Lately, for finishing, I've settled on a combination that seems to work very well on
hard steel, such as Hart, Portland, Friodur. I haven't tried the same routine on "softer"
razors yet, but here you go:

12K - dark blue escher - black/translucent Arkansas (just a few laps) - 0.5 CrOx on
hard felt - linen - Roo hide.

Today I shaved with a Friodur which was honed by gssixgun, so you can bet that
the bevel was well set. All it needed was a touch-up. I used the above progression,
and I swear that it's maybe the best edge that I've ever been able to put on a razor:
super sharp, really smooth, with no stainless steel harshness. It was a very close,
irritation-free shave. For me, anyway, it was a step up from "normal."

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JOB15

Escher to crox.
I would have thought that Escher would be the finish , if all the previous steps were perfected .

---

JOB15 is right. I touched up the same Friodur razor again, this time ending
with the escher only, and the shave was a bit better...not quite as smooth,
but plenty keen enough.

Thank you, sir!

Sweet Mother of God!!!! Well then, someone should take a Filly Barbas Duras or better, a Livi, out to the sidewalk with a pint of milk and have a go. If a brick works, then a concrete curb should be a good way to finish it... That video is bone chilling. I'd be interested in a video that shows that same guy actually shaving with a blade "sharpened" using that method. OK it's parody right? Sure hope so... Might be worth a chuckle to do that to a Gold Dollar and then look at whatever edge remains under magnification. The term "sawtooth" comes to mind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utopian

Here ya go.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zD2z2vJEpKQ

---

I usually go

Naniwa 1K - Naniwa 5K - BBW - Coticule - canvas strop - leather strop

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gary haywood

I use the 3 k chosera for bevel setting and the 1k chosera only if I really need to speed things up. After using natural hones I really don’t need to since in invested in to the Gok 20 k . Great finisher that leaves nothing but smooth edges.

---

Gary took the words out of my mouth.
That is precisely what I do.

B.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by beluga

Gary took the words out of my mouth.
That is precisely what I do.

B.

---

I have seven razors 5 that get touched up with the 20 k and two that get maintained with my coticule or mini Thuringian hone for razors .

I like both but for consistency and smoothness I have to admit the 20 k is really easy and has to be the best finisher out there for that reason of consistency.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gary haywood

I have seven razors 5 that get touched up with the 20 k and two that get maintained with my coticule or mini Thuringian hone for razors .

I like both but for consistency and smoothness I have to admit the 20 k is really easy and has to be the best finisher out there for that reason of consistency.

---

How does the 20k compare to the Coticule (let' say a La Grise or Nouvelle Veine) in terms of smoothness and forgivingness?

I've been tempted to buy a 20k but couldn't justify the cost so far

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utopian

Are you using milk on any of those?

---

Donkey milk that is!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TristanLudlow

How does the 20k compare to the Coticule (let' say a La Grise or Nouvelle Veine) in terms of smoothness and forgivingness?

I've been tempted to buy a 20k but couldn't justify the cost so far

---

Since I had the 20 k I have compared both edges ?

First of all I use 3 k 5 k 8 k naniwas plus 12 k then 20 k

If I am using the coticule I set bevel at 3 k level then dilucot and finish with water as most coticule users do.

The coticule edge when successful and at its peak is smooth very forgiving as you may well experienced.

I really do think the 20 k edge is as smooth and the feel is nice it really does mimic that natural stone feel maybe not as forgiving but maybe shaves that bit closer on the first pass.

Coticule edge kind of munches through the stubble where as 20 k edge just shaves a lot cleaner it’s hard to explain.

If you get chance send a razor to celticrusader on here he used 20 k for sometime then you can try a 20 k edge to judge for your self but I would recommend it my self

A brick,eh.!!! :roflmao. Everyone knows bacon grease, works better than milk.

On a more serious note..
Bevel set on 1000 Chosera.
Washita.
Fast cutting Thurigan W/ slurry, diluted to water.
B/G Escher, Slurry to water.
Leaded linen strop.
Then a line up of leather, starting with a heavy draw to fast. Typically 3 leather strops, 100 passes each.

Results...smooth, irritation free shaves.

I hardly use my synthetic hones anymore.
Hard to beat an Escher, but your edge stops at the strop, not at the stone. JMHO

The two most important things..
Proper bevel set, and stropping. If any of these two are done wrong, your just wasting time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AirColorado

Something I've been wondering for years... As with most, I'll set a bevel using a 240 grit stone or glass and then start to get things right starting with a 1K up to the 12K.
.....
After the 12K I have an Escher, 0.5 CROx on leather, 0.5 and 1.0 diamond spray on leather, a few good cuticles from the quarry in Belgium, felt, mesh, and all other manner of polishing stones and materials. My normal right now after the 12K is to go to the Escher, then CROx, felt, and leather strop. At times if something seems "off" after the Escher I'll do some laps on 1.0 diamond then 0.5 diamond then CRox, and felt/leather. But it seems there has to be a less variable method.

So if you have all or most of the above, what's your preferred go-to routine when starting from bevel-set?

---

Lots of moving parts ...
Go-to is what works.

I am tempted to say that the 1K and coarser stones belong in a box... if used, use them once on the razor
because the bevel once set is good for a gosh long time. If they are necessary to set a bevel spend a lot of time
at 2K or 4K to remove the abuse that the coarse stones do to a razor. Magic marker test to know that the bevel
is set is valuable.

The pyramid method 4K and 8K has taught me a lot. It seems that once a blade is sharp (set bevel) the
management of honing to eliminate a burr is important. I used circles a lot and now work hard
to remove any circle scratch pattern before moving to the next finer grit. Slurry gets washed off
much quicker than I used to do.

I now refresh a razor that shaves only on 12K or on a coticle and do that refresh finish under running water.
Coticle or Echer but not both...

I do have 0.25 micron diamond or CBN on most of my canvas or felt strops. Mostly to break the
canvas in quicker.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gary haywood

Coticule edge kind of munches through the stubble where as 20 k edge just shaves a lot cleaner it’s hard to explain.

---

I totally understand ! Will have to try out a 20k finish

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TristanLudlow

I totally understand ! Will have to try out a 20k finish

---

How is this 20K hone comparing to the 30K Shapton?

I have not quite conquered the 30K and in the process of reviewing my
basics I have improved my coticule honing so much that I am wondering if
I need my 18K and 30K Shapton hones except for braggin rights.

Heck it might not be my hone it might be my new "shell" strop ;-)

It's a long road from honing newbie to honemaeister- and after more than a decade I'm still short of honemeister - by a lot. After reading all these, and then reviewing a few videos I'd saved, I started experimenting. Using magnification on a loupe, and using many different tests I've come around to this progression as my norm for a newly restored blade:

Bevel set on a Norton 1K
Clean up swiftly (less than 20 strokes) on Norton 4 and 8K.
Escher from slurry to clear water using progressively more water and less pressure until clear water and blade weight only.
Hard felt then strop about 60 laps each.

Seems to give a more consistent edge and smoothness. Also experimented with blades just starting to need a refresh and it seems using the Escher, felt, and strop alone does the trick.

Now I need to remember exactly why I bought CrOx, Diamond spray, and a few new cuticles from the quarry in Belgium.

Moral of the story - Ive been over-honing for a long time! The absolute least amount of grit and laps needed seems to work best. Pardon me while I refresh all in my rotation and then tackle a pile of restored blades I've been avoiding. Thanks gents! My face thanks you as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AirColorado

Moral of the story - Ive been over-honing for a long time! The absolute least amount of grit and laps needed seems to work best. Pardon me while I refresh all in my rotation and then tackle a pile of restored blades I've been avoiding. Thanks gents! My face thanks you as well.

---

Don't let the pendulum swing too far towards not enough laps. I'm no honemeister either but one tip I got from one is that if the Norton 8k swarfs up quickly you need to spend more time on the 4k.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lazarus

Don't let the pendulum swing too far towards not enough laps. I'm no honemeister either but one tip I got from one is that if the Norton 8k swarfs up quickly you need to spend more time on the 4k.

---

I was thinking the same thing possibly using the Escher to catch up on mid stage work. I tend to do the same with fast cutting Jnat finishers but hey, it works.
Thing I do find is when doing a full synthetic progression up to Gok 20k, adequate mid range time leaves me doing as few as 6 strokes on the 20k, depending of course on the razor.
So honing is like an echo. It starts off loud & peters off faintly at the end. Naturals tho, do seem to take more time to finish on.