Welsh slates - looking for advice from those with experience

I have been honing with Welsh slates for a couple of months now and have good results. However, my success is more luck and perseverence than knowledge and skill. After setting bevel on 1k, I move to Dragons Tongue with slurry and dilute about every 10 or 20 laps for a total of 50 to 100 laps. Repeat with Llynn Melynynn. Repeat with the black so called 15k welsh thuringian (for lack of a proper name). My questionion is for those who use and like these stones, what methods work well for you. Slurry or no slurry? Slurry on all stones or just the lower/mid range stones? How many laps? It seems that these naturals are forgiving due to their slow nature, but I have no idea how many laps brings me to the point of diminishing returns. Or am I not lapping enough? I really value the collective wisdom here and look forward to hearing from those who have experience with Welsh slates. Thank you

Well the basis for every perfect shaving edge is the bevel set. If it is in fact set it is just polishing from there. I have used a few of the purple Welsh hones as finishers. That is to say i have gone to the 8K on synthetic hones and then finished on the slate. A fairly light slurry diluting to clear in around 100 strokes. My purple slate is incredibly slow, which is why I don’t use it anymore, however they are not all as slow as mine. I have used a couple of others that were much quicker. Natural hones are a bit of a romance as they tend to be fairly individual. You might want to try putting a 3 to 5K synthetic in your line up. It will likely speed your process up quite a bit.

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Originally Posted by RezDog

Well the basis for every perfect shaving edge is the bevel set.
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You might want to try putting a 3 to 5K synthetic in your line up. It will likely speed your process up quite a bit.

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This makes a lot of sense to me. The synthetics seem to be the best and most reliable
way to get down to a polished bevel.

What I am playing with now is only an 8K hone to refresh a shaver. Then I perfect the edge on a natural.
By entering the land of naturals with only 8K scratches I use no slurry and even allow my slate finisher
and surgical black to polish themselves.

I have been wiping the edge on a wet cork to remove any burr starting at 1K and even at 8K, 10K, 12K, 16K...
In the land of synthetics this gives me a calmer shaving edge and may be unnecessary with a more skilled hand
than mine.

For me I am getting better shaves on my open edge str8s than most DE blades give me.

I do not understand the wet cork.

I would imagine the cork is the equivalent of lightly jointing the edge on the side of the hone.

Ah. I occasionally do that with my thumb nail during restoration honing.

Thank for the insight. I also have a King 6k. If I were to replace the dragons tongue with the 6k, how many laps would you recommend (ballpark-I realize every razor is different)? Or would I be better adding the 6k for before or after the dragons tongue? And is 100 laps on the slate a good ballpark number for all three slates (and as with razors, I will keep in mind the variability of natural stones)? Thank you

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Originally Posted by Jmgaragnani

Thank for the insight. I also have a King 6k. If I were to replace the dragons tongue with the 6k, how many laps would you recommend (ballpark-I realize every razor is different)? Or would I be better adding the 6k for before or after the dragons tongue? And is 100 laps on the slate a good ballpark number for all three slates (and as with razors, I will keep in mind the variability of natural stones)? Thank you

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As my good friend RezDog has said the bevel is the secret.

Depending on how bad your edge is that King could be used to set the bevel. Since it's a 6K it will take longer but I do think it can be done.

As you may or may not know the King stones are Thirsty SOB's! Plan on soaking it overnight. Also plan on allowing a week for it to fully dry out if that's the way you want to store it. However if you add about a Tablespoonful of Plain Liquid Chlorine Bleach to a Gallon of Distilled water and keep the King in a plastic container that you can put a lid on it will be ready to use. I've done that for years and no damage to my King or my Norton 4/8K. With that said since I haven't been honing like I was I have been keeping them both dry but soak overnight when I know I need to hone.

While this may not seem to apply please watch GSSIXGUN's video about Tape or No Tape as he will show that a 5K can be used to bring a bevel back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMchDtXzUO4&t=8s

I like the purple Welsh slate off a coticule, sometimes followed by the so-called "Welsh Thuringian." Really brings up the sharpness a notch from my experience without falling into harshness. My default progression is Suehiro 1k/3k, coticule with water, purple Welsh slate with water or light sewing machine oil, and it has yet to fail me. In lieu of a coticule, a dragon's tongue can also be used.

The thing for me is not to use slurries. In a complete progression, I figure the 3k is doing the work there. I don't do all that many passes off a coticule either. Maybe a few dozen, diminishing further if I advance to the "WT." And this is in using the small 35mm x 135mm stones hand-held.

I am not much for counting strokes. I use a loupe to define my bevel set and then to watch my progress on each hone, and that is my indicator to move up. I have however noticed that as I progress it takes less strokes as I move higher. I would put the 6K before the dragons tongue as a starting point and then monitor how the scratch pattern emerges when you step up. I have a 60X loupe that works well for me.

I’ve used my “15k” slate after 8k on medium slurry. Then I’ll clear the stone and spend some time on lather to finish. Hope this helps.

I use the black "15k" stone fairly often and it is a nice finisher, the purple one also is very nice but not quiet as fine as the black one

I assume you are talking about Ebay “Welsh Stones” and not vintage Welsh stones.

If so they can vary in fineness and ability to finish, those I have tried can produce a shaving edge. Vintage stones may be a bit finer.
Personally, I doubt any Ebay stones are finer than about a 6k edge. The King 6k is capable of producing a shaving edge, though a jump to an 8k will give you a much smoother edge.

If you strop on Chrome Oxide it does not matter much and the finished edge should be higher and give smoother shave. How many laps depend as said, on the quality of the set bevel. You want to remove all the 1k or previous grit stone’s stria.

A good method for a new to adopt, Alex Gilmore’s Ax Method of honing, using half laps of 20,10, 5, 2 and 1 a total of 38 laps per side. That is sufficient to set a bevel for most razors, except those with edge damage, if needed another set of 38 should fully set the bevel, look straight down on the edge, if you see shiny reflections at the edge with magnification, the bevel is not set. Alex has several excellent videos demonstrating the technique, often with 2 stones, a King 1k and Jnat. Search Alex Gilmore, Ax Method.

A set of 38, laps will also remove all the deep 1k stria with a 6k king, again if not, another set should do it. Then try shaving with the 6k edge after stropping on plain leather. Now do a set of 38 laps on the Welsh and see which edge you prefer.

Stropping either edge on Chromium Oxide should produce similar edges, 25-50 laps on Chrome Oxide. If you do not have a dedicated pasted strop, you can paste a piece of cardboard, inside of a cereal box.

The 6k King is an under rated stone. I picked up one at a fleamarket for a couple bucks and have been playing with it in place of a 4k with good results often going 1,6k and Jnat or Ark.

I like the 6K King. It's a good one. Bridges quite the gap.