Shapton Glass 30K or Suehiro 20K ?

I’m getting great shaves and lasting edges off my Naniwa stones finishing on a 12K but like a lot of people I’ve got it in my head there is a better edge and better shave out there beyond my 12K. I do not want to spend the time and money for a jnat or coticule. I’d love to have the natural stones but I just don’t feel like a six month learning curve. So, I’m thinking about either a Shapton 30K or Suehiro 20K.

Have any of you used either of these to finish following a 12K? Any of you who may have tried both? They’re both pricey. I’m trying to decide. Any advice or recommendations would be appreciated.

Tune in tomorrow, lol. I honed up a pair of 208s, one on a Naniwa 10k (sorry no 12k but you can send me one!) and one on the N10k followed by the Gok 20.

Cheers, Steve

Am definitely interested in your shave off the 20K

I have both the 30K and the 20K.

Honestly I have never gotten good results off the 30K and almost never use it. It's the only stone I have ever used where I'm just not happy with it. On the other hand the 20K works flawlessly, is fast and easy to use and gives fantastic edges. I can't imagine a razor being sharper or maybe I should say being able to discern a difference in shaving past the 20K. I mean why stop, maybe a 60K stone or a 100K stone. It gets to be a cost benefit type of thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I have both the 30K and the 20K.

Honestly I have never gotten good results off the 30K and almost never use it. It's the only stone I have ever used where I'm just not happy with it. On the other hand the 20K works flawlessly, is fast and easy to use and gives fantastic edges. I can't imagine a razor being sharper or maybe I should say being able to discern a difference in shaving past the 20K. I mean why stop, maybe a 60K stone or a 100K stone. It gets to be a cost benefit type of thing.

---

Interesting. The Suhehiro is advertised as 0.50 microns the Shapton Pro/Glass at 0.49 microns. Grit-wise, they are the same, so the difference in the edge feel has to be the binder, right?

Or maybe the shape of the grit particles?

Cheers, Steve

Off the Naniwa 12k go with the 20k

The Shapton works best off the Shapton 16k it works best as a system

The 20K works better off more hones it is more versatile and more friendly with more types of steel


JMHO

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gssixgun

The Shapton works best off the Shapton 16k it works best as a system.

---

I've got the Shapton Glass system (1,2,4,8,16,30k) and love it.

I've got a Shapton 16k and I've heard great things about the efficiency of the entire line. I was thinking about picking up the rest of them.

gssixgun, if you see this, what types of steel tend to be more compatible with the Shaptons? I'd need to reconsider if that range is too narrow.

I read and researched on this site and elsewhere. About the Gokumyo 20K. After over a year of use to refresh my edges. For myself and a limited amount of others. I have been very satisfied with it's effectiveness and ease of use.
Even a novice honer like myself can achieve very good edges reliably.
Recently I have acquired a Translucent Arkansas stone. So far I have been able to use it to get edges that give comfortable shaves. While not the same level of sharpness IMHO. They are smooth and forgiving. The hair is cut easily and the edge seems to exfoliate less.
I wouldn't say one is "superior" to the other. They are just different. It's too soon for me to say which I prefer. My gut tells me that I may switch back and forth depending on what I feel like.
I will say without a doubt the Gokumyo will get you there much quicker than the Arkie. But if I was really worried about being quick. I would just stick with my Fatboy and Voskhod's. And not have to hone at all.
My $.02 Ken

Thank you. That’s the info I was looking for, the best finisher to follow a Nani 12K. About a week ago I tuned up my razors a bit and instead of the usual 10 laps on the 12K I did about 20-25 then went to 20 strokes on fabric with Crx, then 75 laps on English Bridle Leather. It knocked the top off arm hair and all along the edge it quickly popped single hairs without snagging or grabbing and without noise. Under a Loupe the bevel was more polished. The shaves are noticeably better! But like many of us I’m still in search of that perfect edge. I’ve decided that I’m going to take a crack at it with the 20K. Thanks to all for the info!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sonnythehooligan

I've got a Shapton 16k and I've heard great things about the efficiency of the entire line. I was thinking about picking up the rest of them.

gssixgun, if you see this, what types of steel tend to be more compatible with the Shaptons? I'd need to reconsider if that range is too narrow.

---

Please understand this is a ton of opinion and mine is shaped by the feedback from my customers

I tend to use the Shaptons on the superfine grained Vintage NY and a few other American made razors and little else.

The Japanese razors also have steel that can handle it and I have coaxed some impressive edges out of Wackers and Revisors with them.

The one thing about the Shapton system and The Naniwa SS for that matter, is they are repeatable and accurate they don't miss if you do your part..





I feel threads like this should come with a warning :p

Just remember we are talking about the top rung of the honing ladder with the 20k and the 30k, in fact, most finishers, so climbing up the lower rungs is much more important :) Or read my Sigline twice

We are way off into the minutia of this hobby now :rofl2:

Well, I shaved with both Gold Dollars, one with the Naniwa 10k edge and one with the Suehiro 20k edge. The 20k edge tested slightly better with HHT than the 10k (the root-in performance was just slightly better with the 20k), but I know from experience that this result by itself doesn't indicate a better/smoother shave.

TBH, in-shave, I really couldn't tell the difference, either WTG or ATG. They were so close that I actually used one razor for 2-4 'strokes' then switched to the other so that I was testing both razors on the same part of my face, trying to ensure that both edges were equally tested. Sometimes I thought that 208-8 was a hint smoother, that was the 10k Naniwa, but it wouldn't be honest to state this as a fact.

Neither was as smooth as a first-class jnat finisher, but the difference wasn't large, and I could shave with the 10k or 20k edge with no worries forever. You can certainly buy a jnat for considerably less than $250 that makes an edge that's very comparable, but like most naturals, you may not get it on the first try. A sure bet is an attractive thing about synths.

Cheers, Steve

Steve this falls in line with something ive said and believe, most cant tell the difference in the shave quality going to the extreme with stones. a well honed 12k and a well honed 20k can only be compared if your experience level is advanced. and it aint much. after I became good with a straight I picked up razors that I thought were not sharp and lo and behold they were, so I owed an apology to the hone guy. if your new chances are you wont be able to tell the difference. and if the 12k naniwa isn't as much as you want then look in the mirror, its more likely that its you that is,nt performing top notch. I had the 20 Gok, fantastic stone, always repeatable quality super smooth edges. I sold it to a friend, I have learned my 12k and can max it out, and don't need anything smoother or sharper, so its my stone. sometimes I even go to the Zulu for a few strokes after it, depending on the razor. so great experiment Steve... Tc

Thanks for the kind words Tc!

If money were no object, I'd go with the Suehiro simply because it's harder and you wouldn't have to lap it as much as a Naniwa SS. If that's worth an extra $200 to you, then it's all good. I'd also choose it over an Arkansas because it's fast. Really, really, really fast compared to an Ark, and a full bench, flattened razor-grade Ark from Dan's isn't exactly cheap (about 1/2 the Suehiro). The Suehiro is also about as hard as an Ark, and to get it really dead nuts mirror flat, you're in for an experience similar to an Ark.

But if you're just maintaining a few of your own razors, that extra cash would be hard to justify.

Cheers gentlemen, Steve

I ordered a 20K. I look forward to taking it out for a spin when it arrives.

it is a very good stone, but answer me this question, have you learned and maxed out your 12k? read Glens quote on his posts . if your not completely satisfied with your 12k, then another stone wont be any better. if yyour wanting one then by all means buy it, but we see this all the time, guy thinks its his stone not doing good enough and it tends to be the honer. and if your shaving abilities aren't the best you cant tell anyway.

the benefit of the 20k is in turning out a lot of blades fast with a superior edge(experienced honers who do know how to max out) but you will get good edges off of it, maybe no better than your 12k, but a cool stone none the less. its not always about ultra fine stones, remember a well honed on a Coticle gives a great shave too, and most of them are barely 8k so its in the hands of the guy honing. I thought I was getting the most out of my 12k till I learned I wasn't. Heck Ron made me try setting a bevel with a 12k it can be done (slurry is your friend), enjoy your stone Tc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tcrideshd

it is a very good stone, but answer me this question, have you learned and maxed out your 12k? read Glens quote on his posts . if your not completely satisfied with your 12k, then another stone wont be any better. if yyour wanting one then by all means buy it, but we see this all the time, guy thinks its his stone not doing good enough and it tends to be the honer. and if your shaving abilities aren't the best you cant tell anyway.

the benefit of the 20k is in turning out a lot of blades fast with a superior edge(experienced honers who do know how to max out) but you will get good edges off of it, maybe no better than your 12k, but a cool stone none the less. its not always about ultra fine stones, remember a well honed on a Coticle gives a great shave too, and most of them are barely 8k so its in the hands of the guy honing. I thought I was getting the most out of my 12k till I learned I wasn't. Heck Ron made me try setting a bevel with a 12k it can be done (slurry is your friend), enjoy your stone Tc

---

That’s a great question. And the truth is up until about two months ago I had not maxed out the 12K after reading some post on this and other forums I went back and tuned up my razors on 8 K and 12 K maxing out based on the input I received on these stones. In the past I finished with 10 strokes on the 12 K, then stripped on fabric with crx then 50 strokes on leather. With the new progression I finished with 25-30 strokes on the 12 K followed by 20 strokes on the fabric with CRX followed by 75 strokes on 3” wide English Bridle Leather. I was blown away by the difference the edges looked under magnification and even more blown away by the difference in my shave. I felt I was getting nice shaves. I was very surprised. And you’re right sharpening and honing is a learned skill and some people are just flat better at it than others and will always get a better edge. It takes patience, lots and lots of practice and the right stones. I love reading and watching videos about those who use Naturals, jnats, Eschers, coticules etc. I’m not interested in pursuing the naturals. Since 1995 I’ve developed a pretty nice tough with razors but not so much sharpening a regular knife. But I’m getting better with the knives. It’s becoming an obsession. Thanks for the post sir.