I have a jeweler's loupe 10x that I use when honing. I don't know if it helping much. How should I use it and check for when honing?
Joe
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I have a jeweler's loupe 10x that I use when honing. I don't know if it helping much. How should I use it and check for when honing?
Joe
There are plenty of picture threads on the forum. The one below may help. Pics are a bit higher than 10x but you should still get some ideas.
Basically you want to see an evenness all the way to the edge. No differing scratch patterns & no or minimal sparkley bits
You still need to develop the skills to achieve this but the loupe will give you visual feedback.
https://straightrazorpalace.com/honi...pictorial.html
I havent use a 10x. Mine is 40x i think so 8m not sure this will worl for ya. To check t9 see if the bevel is set, i look directly down on the edge. If i can see where both sides come together then its not. When they meet at a the tip of the bevel i can just barely make out the thinnest of lines. And i mean barely see it. The basics of looking down on the edge, your looking for any shinny spots at the edge. If you see a shinny spot then the two sides are not meeting at an apex.you have a flat spot or a chip in the edge.
After bevel is set, then what your looking at is the scratches. You will see that they are deep and wide at first. Then after going with light preasure they will get shallower. When you progress to the next stone, you will find the scratches thinner. So as you go up thru the grit of stones it will be less and less.
Thats is the basics IMO.
A loupe is an aid to honing and trick to using one is to know what you are looking at and for. In post #2 the link should give you a good idea what you are looking at and for. You then have to figure out what strokes to apply to correct any deficiencies that you see. That can take some time to learn how to interpret what you are seeing and how to apply corrections if needed. At least it took me awhile to be able to use a loupe successfully.
It helps to view the edge under a bright light source. For that purpose I have an old goose neck table lamp with a bright LED bulb placed at the end of the hone I am using. It is bent over the hone so I can see how the water is moving at the edge of the blade while honing and to check the edge with a loupe.
Bob
I use a 30x loupe. But I only use it for checking for micro chips.
I look at the the edges from the sides at a 90°angle. This allows me to see if the scratches are uniform, and reach completely to the apex. Also, if you have a well lighted wall you'll be able to see the micro chips, by twisting the blade one way or the other till the bevel looks black to the eye, then move up n down the edge with the loupe to see
Attachment 291650
The creation of the apex is super important. For that I look nearly straight down on the apex and watch for any white lines or sparkles, as they indicate places wher the apex does not create a perfect or complete ‘V’. A nice bright light source is needed.
https://straightrazorpalace.com/honi...ggestions.html
There are some good pictures in this thread too.
I use a Belomo loupe 10x, especially useful if you restore razors where most of your honing will start at a new bevel set, I personally like to look at the bevel quite closely at the bevel set stage If I'm happy with what I'm seeing then I can put the bevel away for the rest of the progression.
One thing to bear in mind is that all loupes are not made equal. Celticcrusaders Belomo 10 x loupe is a 1st class loupe that is a lot more powerful than a cheap Chinese one at double the magnification.
I have a cheap 30 x loupe like Outbacks that does the job just fine.
I use a loupr to check if bevel is polishing evenly as I hone. I use a paramag that does not distort to check edge for nicks.
I have an 11x achromatic triplet (analogous to a 10x Bausch & Lomb Hastings achromatic triplet loupe) that I use to check the edge and bevel. For the bevel, I look at it with reflected light on the blade, with the light source at around a 45-degree angle to the blade. The edge, I view in silhouette with the light source behind it. 10x-11x suits me fine. A higher magnification like 20x (B&L Hastings achromatic triplet loupe) brings me too close to the bevel; and the edge viewed in silhouette there can open up a never-ending quest for visual perfection rather than the quality of the shave itself.
Thanks for advice. The biggest problem I find is getting the light at the right angle to see things clearly, but I think I have the idea.
Do all the striations need to be in the same direction from each grit?
Euclid440 said on one post to make the last 10 strokes on the 8K at 90* to edge. What is the reason for this?
How much magnification you need is personal, I believe more is better.
You want to look for 1. damage, chips and cracks, 2. Is the stria reaching the edge, often heels and toes do not. If the stria is not to the edge, you are not honing a new edge and need to adjust your technique or stroke. 3. Are you removing the previous grit’s deep stria. 4. Are the bevels meeting, look straight down on the edge, any shiny reflections, the bevels are not yet meeting.
Colored Sharpie ink will quickly tell you if you are honing to the edge with minimal magnification or naked eye quickly.
The goal of a progression is to remove the previous grits stria with each progression of grit stone and straighten the edge. Alternating the final strokes from the previous grit will tell you if you have removed the previous grit stria. EG. Straight 1k, angled 4k and on.
I use 30,60 and 100X lighted magnifiers, they are inexpensive 2-15 dollars.
Not to offend anyone, but magnification impeded my growth into honing, by making me focus too much on "scratch patterns" and not enough on the technique of honing with consistent pressure and direction. Worse, I never really have understood what I'm looking for!
It created a worry for me, much like the thumb pad test or hanging hair test, which really mean nothing and can hurt a good edge.
I've moved to hone...shave....see whaat it feels like, hone a little more or differently. I understand the science, but I think it is equally art and feel, and for me magnification gets in the way of feeling the edge with my face. :shrug:
I don’t know how focusing on the scratch patterns takes away from your technique Harold. It seems to me that one would follow the other - I mean you can’t have a good technique if your scratch patterns are all messy! And you can’t have good scratch patterns if your technique is off. Which leads me to believe that you don’t understand the science...Quote:
Originally Posted by Haroldg48
Of course I’ve always maintained there was voodoo involved in honing a straight, so look at me calling the kettle black lol!
I never used more than 10X.
I want to send hairs flying and see a gleam! :rofl2:
I agree, I don’t understand the science, or art. If I try to judge my edges by looking at them under 30x, I’d never shave, because i’m obsessive. So I hone some, until it feels smooth on the stone, and then shave.
It’s my own voodoo! I’m clearly just a bad honer and am making an excuse. Tom or Glenn have honed most of mine and they last for years. But I’m nor a collector or restorer. I shave with every blade I own, some more ( and better) than others.
I hear you... I’m not quite sure if I can hone worth a darn either. All I know is I can hone well enough to get me to my pastes lol. And that’s good enough for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Haroldg48
;)
A 10x? For my money I might as well squint really hard. I use a 200x microscope. Now the next thing is that those who own really professional and high quality microscopes will tell you that there is a level of optic quality that is hardly the same. I’m not going to argue otherwise or even debate these questions of optics. All I will tell you is tha MY eye needs something much stronger than 10x or even 30x. Whatever I get from my 200x works for ME. When I look through it I’m looking at stiria in the early stages and the edge in the later stages. I’m looking for a clean edge. But I’m also used to knowing what to expect at each grit. When I get to the highest grits. The edge will be harder to even see as it appears to drop off into the abyss. People will tell you that there is a right level of magnification. But I think it’s like the HHT. It’s all relative. And it means different things to different people. Don’t let anyone tell you the limits of what should work for you.
My hat's off to anyone who can consistently hone by sound or feel alone. I say honing is like trading the stock market.
The more tools & indicators you can use, the more likely you will succeed. Rely on just one & results are heavily influenced by luck..
I'm more a visual learner but scratches & stria mean little unless they are causing chips in the edge. This can also be the fault of the razor but it is more likely to happen at 1k. Get that bevel set clean as possible & the rest is usually smooth sailing, again, dependent on the razor.
The need for good optical quality applies to loupes as well as microscopes. An optically good low powered triplet loupe with low distortion and coated lenses is not inexpensive. There are loupes and then there are loupes.
For me a low powered good quality loupe is enough to get the job done to my satisfaction. Higher magnification is alright once you have learned to hone. I say that because of the number of threads on this forum from beginners to honing using high magnification that appear to be driving themselves crazy by trying for perfection at high magnification. Seems like there are too many imperfections seen at high magnification that mean nothing to getting a good shaving edge. Anyway, that is just my impression of using high magnification at the start of a honing career.
Bob
I honed my own razors successfully for a long time before I ever thought about looking at an edge under magnification. That's something that I learned here.
Magnification does two things for me:
1. Tells me when to stop. I'm sure that I did way too many laps before.
2. Quickly identifies problems that I previously couldn't really figure out. Points me to the part of the blade needing attention. Before, I just kept honing until all was well.
Since I know what a good edge looks like, I really don't need more than 10x to do what I need to do.
Wait till you get one of those 1%ers that look like a hacksaw but shave like a dream. Really messes with yer head :roflmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by kelbro
Attachment 293741
I have a little experience with microscopes, hand held magnifiers, loupes and other stuff.
They all have their strong and weak points.
What I can tell you is for a couple of years this is my "go to" magnification.
Nice wide field of view and great optics.
On eBay for $8-9 dollars.
Here's a link : https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-SHIP-30x...-/323353337333
Attachment 293742
Pete <:-}
I have one of those. Quite good for the price & shows you only need 8-10x for honing. The 30 is actually the diameter in mm's.Quote:
Originally Posted by petercp4e
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Originally Posted by celticcrusader
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Originally Posted by Brontosaurus
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Originally Posted by sharptonn
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Originally Posted by BobH
Using my recently acquired BelOMO 10x loupe has changed my honing life for the better. It's akin to finding a rare, bad-ass loot weapon in the Borderlands 2 video game when all you've used previously vanquished adequately at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelbro
Since I started to hone in 2012, I've always used a crappy LED 30x loupe that cost $5 but strained my eyes with poor quality optics. A 10x achromatic triplet simply blows away the 30x plastic crap in all regards. For me, those LEDs never worked well for seeing edges.
Turns out Amazon is presently running a 25% off deal on this loupe, so it's about $30 instead of just under $40. For those of you still using crap "30x" loupes, consider a small investment in certified optical quality glass (think camera lenses). Your eyes will thank you, and your honing results will no doubt improve as mine have.
Just ordered one. Thanks Mark
one thing I have noticed lately using optics is to be able to double check your strop technique, and I just did this this evening with a 10x and I could see what I was after with it.
so you hone a razor, so that the edge makes a perfect triangle with the bevels. then go and shave a couple times with it. then take a look at your scratch pattern, to remember which direction your finishing strokes were the last time you honed it. now take a couple strokes in a different direction, now look at the edge with your 10x from heel to toe on both sides, and you should be able to see where you have rounded the edge off with your strop as the original scratch pattern will be visible at the very edge. how far up the bevel it extends, lets you know where you are being heavy handed or light handed with the strop.
I noticed on a couple razors that it seems ive been putting more pressure on the left side of the blade near the heel, so I need to lighten up on the return stroke near the heel coming back.
I would bet that you can use the same technique to double check the evenness of pressure on different strokes. say you are pretty even doing xstrokes, but when you do half strokes, you put more pressure on the heel on one side or another. then you know there is a problem and can start playing with different variables until you find what it is and fix it.
I've bought all the loupes, and have gotten rid of all but the 16x jewelers loupe. It lets in enough light and has a high enough resolution.
Add a felt block and you are set.
I have a few different loupes, I have the cheapie ones like Glen used in one of his vids as it has a pretty decent view with an led light and then I have Belolo 10x triplet but to be honest the cheapie one is the one I reach for and I just use it on inital inspection for chips and such but after coming off the 1K I rarely use one.
I always use a loop. The peak of the cutting edge should never reflect light. Thats when you know you have a proper edge
Got my BelOMO 10x loupe in the mail last week and used it last Friday. Definitely a step up from my other loupes.
All of the loupes that I have tried have the optical property of the magnification power varying with the distance from the object being viewed. I typically adjust this distance to close to the highest magnification before distortion starts being a problem.
The beLOMO seemed to deliver close to it's advertised power before distortion. The cheaper loops that I have experimented with have a laughable amount of distortion when used close to their advertised magnification
I just ordered the Belomo 10x loupe. Just under 30 bucks. Thanks, Mark. I use my scope most the time but now and then I like to pick-up the loupe. I'd rather know that what I'm using is real and not fake!
