Hard stee, high grit

I’ve recently honed three razors that all have stubbornly hard steel. Two TIs and a Friodur 72- v. When honing them they all exhibit the same reactions. You cut a bevel on a 1k and think you’re finally off to the races. As you clean them up on the higher grits, the edge just seems to crumble away. Suddenly you seem to be back where you started with either no bevel or a half ass one. So I go back down and up again. The cycle repeats. What I find is that these don’t appreciate the low grit stones. If I reset the crumbled edge with 8k slurry and simply put more laps in at 8, 12, and 20k the edge holds. Typically I do about five laps on the 12k. With a hard steel that is giving me this trouble I’ll easily do 30. Has anyone else found the more work on the high grits to be the answer to difficult, hard steel?

Yes and no. What I find also to be helpful is to be very gentle with hard steel. I’m often fairly content to use pressure early on with the 1K and softer, older Sheffield steel. Swedes, American, French, and German SS, I tend to steer clear of pressure on the 1K and simply do more laps, and perhaps departing with the bevel not quite as well set as I might otherwise, and again on the 4 or 5K with a very light touch and a higher than usual lap count. I just continue on that way. It was a tough lesson early on from a Friodur 50.
That 72-V is an amazing razor. When I first got mine I used it every day for over a month, I just couldn’t put it down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RezDog

Yes and no. What I find also to be helpful is to be very gentle with hard steel. I’m often fairly content to use pressure early on with the 1K and softer, older Sheffield steel. Swedes, American, French, and German SS, I tend to steer clear of pressure on the 1K and simply do more laps, and perhaps departing with the bevel not quite as well set as I might otherwise, and again on the 4 or 5K with a very light touch and a higher than usual lap count. I just continue on that way. It was a tough lesson early on from a Friodur 50.
That 72-V is an amazing razor. When I first got mine I used it every day for over a month, I just couldn’t put it down.

---

The 72-v is my favorite of the Friodurs. I have four Friodurs. The heavier grind makes every other aspect of the Friodur edge come that much more into focus. It plows through like a wedge but doesn’t look or feel much different from a hollow ground. It’s exactly what I hoped it would be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RezDog

Yes and no. What I find also to be helpful is to be very gentle with hard steel. I tend to steer clear of pressure on the 1K and simply do more laps,

---

^^^^^^ This.

I think, for me anyway, gentle pressure was a given. What I was experiencing was essentially doing some of the 8k work at 12k and some of the 4K work at 8K with slurry. And that meant more reps on higher grit stones. For me it’s what has been working. I don’t have that many really hard steel blades so my sample size is limited.

I have a couple of TI razors with C135 Carbonsong steel. I like to go no higher than 10K with synthetics and then move to naturals for finishing. I have not had any issues that way.

I do have a Hart razors that tends to crumble, no matter what I try.

Good info here. Harder steel needs a lighter touch with more laps. I need to remember this. Thanks to the OCD for bringing this up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RayClem

I have a couple of TI razors with C135 Carbonsong steel. I like to go no higher than 10K with synthetics and then move to naturals for finishing. I have not had any issues that way.

I do have a Hart razors that tends to crumble, no matter what I try.

---

I have a Hart too. It’s an absolute nightmare. You might be able to get an acceptable edge on it but it is never great. Could have spent a quarter of the price on a vintage Henkels and had a much better shaver.

I find harder steel to be more brittle, so that kinda makes harder steel weaker.

Try setting the bevel on a higher grit instead of a 1k and creep up on it..

As far as I know, stainless steel (including Friodur) is not so much harder than carbon steel, but rather a bit 'tougher' i.e. more abrasion resistant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pithor

As far as I know, stainless steel (including Friodur) is not so much harder than carbon steel, but rather a bit 'tougher' i.e. more abrasion resistant.

---

Well call it what you like. I have several Friodurs and this was the only one that behaved like the TIs that are a bear to hone. The characteristics were the same. As for the actual hardness, I’ll let the metallurgists chime in.

I collect vintage TI’s and have honed many modern TI’s for AOS, some are harder, but not that hard, certainly not like some modern customs.

Be sure you are not flexing the blade with pressure. It does not take much to flex the blade, the edge comes off the stone and never get honed or does so very slowly when the bevel is widened and the edge reaches the stone. Hard steel is blamed, but not the case.

Try it for yourself. Ink the blade hone a thin razor on a high grit stone with a bit of pressure and see that the ink does not come off the very edge. Experiment to see how much pressure it takes to cause this issue.

It is a good experiment, you will learn a lot about pressure. Ink is your friend.

This ^^^ is one of the first things I learned when honing. Couldn't figure out why I could hone forever and not get my edge any better. Too much pressure!