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ive been in this wonderful wet shaving world for almost 3 years now and while i can pretty much put a shave-ready edge on any razor what i still cannot seem to master is the ability to apply an even bevel to some razors with varying degrees of hone wear.
anyone out there able to breakdown and explain the process so an ijit like me can comprehend?
thanks.
-s.
A wavy bevel means nothing if the razor shaves well, the issue could have been induced during its inital grind or a heavy handed honer during its life, you can gradually correct this with tape so start with say two layers of tape and hone and each time you hone use the tape and the wavy bevel will get thinner and more uniform but unless the spine is evenly worrn you will have to use tape everytime or the wonky bevel will return. This has worked for me but others may chime in with a better fix.
You can even them out to some degree with about 60 degree heel leading strokes. Finish each hone off that way and it looks better, but shaves the same.
You can't really correct uneven bevels just by honing with tape but you can make them smaller. You need to add the tape specifically to worn areas. Nonetheless this only adjusts the edge bevel.
If the razor is warped ,badly honed or ground, the spine will reflect this. So unless you can regrind or correct the spine it will always dictate the geometry of the edge. I'm talking worse case scenario tho as lesser problems can be corrected to some degree.
You can also put bulk wear on the razor by trying to even out the spine. It's a judgement call on each razor.
Just so i am clear ... by 'add tape to specifically worn areas' are you saying to apply very small pieces of tape just to the widest bevel areas? Each side individually? And then apply a second layer of tape fully across over top?
The tape is applied to the SPINE of the razor, thus increasing theQuote:
Originally Posted by sloanwinters
apex angle of the cutting edge, and reducing the width of the bevel.
Understood. But wear on one side does not necessarily mean equal/same wear pattern on the other. I meant adding small pieces of tape up NEAR the spine, but not ACROSS the spine onto the other side. Is my understanding correct?
Attachment 298150
gssixgun once posted an excellent explanation of a solution to honing a warped spine,
but I can't find it.
If I recall correctly, it involves applying 1 layer of tape to the spine (covering
both sides), honing with pressure on the spine until the tape wears thru on
the "high spots", and then applying a second layer of tape on top of that to
finish the honing.
That leaves a layer of tape filling in the low spots, and the second layer evens
the whole thing out. That results in an even bevel, hopefully.
If the bevel is still too wide, then a 3rd layer of tape is added.
Does that make sense?
Ha. yes! I think i understood that. Thank you!!
Unless you start with an almost perfect geometry it's hard to get a perfect bevel, unless it's really bad I don't worry about it. This can really be an issue with old abused razors, sometimes you just have to work with what you are dealt.
Im with rod. Can you make it better? Possibly. You are going to loose a bit of steel trying to correct it and you might not ever get it as straight as you want. Some blades are damaged from heavy handed honing over the years. Some are that way from the factory. Just not made as well back then. I see it as part of the history of the blade. I have a few that are way out of whack but shave just fine. Its only looks. Just keep in mind of how old a razor is and you want to correct it after 100 or 200 years of being off a little.
The hone wear and geometry issues on some razors are so bad sometimes trying to correct them it's just not worth the effort, no one loves a small even bevel more than me, but there will be the occasional razor that comes in that won't defeat me, but I will say to hell with it I will put a good edge on you but I refuse to correct something that's not my fault.
Just gotta say its nice to see im not alone, and that others are in the same boat (so to speak). Im a path of least resistance guy, so if the adjustment requires too much work, trust me, im just fine with an uneven bevel. =]
I mostly only just clean my blades and keep some age and pitting for the same reason - only the edge needs to perfect and the rest just shows the wonderful old and earned history of the razor.
A rolling x-stroke can work wonders sometimes especially on warped blades, those will never be perfect but you can make them very usable againQuote:
Originally Posted by sloanwinters
A thing I have done on some of mine is to put a layer of tape on the spine and rub the spine on a coarse hone keeping the edge barely off the hone (or tape the edge).
Looking at the wear on the tape as it gets thin in some spots, you can see the spine's influence on the bevel.
By keeping this worn piece of tape on the spine and laying another on top, you can begin again on the bevel with a smoother spine.
Just change the top layer only as you go.
I await my lashing....:whipped:
;)
I see nothing wrong with that Tom. Some razors it would be worth the effort. But ive got a couple W&B that are so out of whack it would take forever and you would loose so much metal trying to fix them. Plus i bet n the end you wouldnt end up with a very good bevel angle. It might look better but now the shave is not as good.
If I wound up with a good bevel I figure it to be successfully-honed.
The shave-notes would remind me of procedure to hone it next time. Yeah , I keep shave-notes!
shave notes?
Yeah....They go from hone notes to stropping notes to 1st impression notes to fail notes...Shave-Notes
Thanks for admitting it Tom. I too make notes from where i got it, how much i paid, what i did to restore, then same as you honing and the rest. Im telling you the excel spreadsheet on the computer is the way to go.
That's a good idea! I need to do that with my main razorsQuote:
Originally Posted by Gasman
I admit nothing, Gents! I keep no records, Just Joshing! ;)
Some one should! Thanks!
It depends on why the bevel is not fully contacting the hone. If you have some pictures of razors with this issue, it may be easier to advise you about that razor.
Four main issues can cause uneven bevels,
1. A warped razor,
2. Honing on the stabilizer,
3. Honing with too much pressure on a Hollow Ground bade, or
4, Uneven grind, the geometry is off, angle is off, or spine thickness varies, caused by the honer or the grind, original or re-grind.
The first two are most common as most razors have some warp, caused during heat treating. Honing with a rolling X stroke can get an edge on it and even the bevel width somewhat. Ink and a taped spine will help you see where you are honing and where you are not, protect the spine from further damage and compensate some, for damage or deformation.
Honing on stabilizer, requires re-shaping the heel to move the heel corner of the edge forward of the stabilizer.
You must do what the razor needs, which is why honing by formula does not always work with vintage razors. Adding to the inherent issues of a razor, excessive honing on aggressive stones for years by heavy handed honers will exacerbate problems. Tape can compensate for lost or uneven steel, but first you must understand the cause.
Jumping in blind, doing what the guys before you did may be making it worse. But if you just want to get an edge on it and don’t care what the bevels look like, then it does not matter.
Studying the razor for a minute or two can save you some frustration and get you a stronger smoother edge.
There are other things you can do, depending on the issue and how bad you want an even bevel. In addition to aesthetics, an even bevel makes a stronger edge at a more consistent angle.
