Uneven Hone Wear on a Big Smilin' Wedge

So I won this big chopper wedge Wostenholm IXL on the bay for 40 bucks (which included very nice bone scale blanks, though I'm thinking wood or horn for this one). Anyway, I haven't polished the crud off of it yet, but it is mostly in great shape with very little tarnish, not too much pitting, and nice deep, clear stamps. I don't know if you can see it from the pics, but it does have some pretty uneven hone wear on the spine and someone's recent bevel:
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I know this subject has been done to death on the Honing forum, but I don't think I've ever had one this bad. Given that it's almost a full wedge, would you guys just put on multiple layers of tape and start with the rolling gymnastics on the hones, try to even it out with sanding, what? This is the heaviest, nicest Wosty I have come across, and I still can't believe the price I paid for it, so I don't want to screw it up. TIA for your input. Aaron/SHD

If it were me I would sand a little before polishing. I would blend in the edges of the hone ware with the sanding only for cosmetics. On a wedge or near wedge I generally use 2 layers of tape. Before applying tape check spine with a straight edge for high or low areas. Putting a layer of tape in low areas and covering with one layer full length of spine can help with an even bevel.

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Originally Posted by bouschie

If it were me I would sand a little before polishing. I would blend in the edges of the hone ware with the sanding only for cosmetics. On a wedge or near wedge I generally use 2 layers of tape. Before applying tape check spine with a straight edge for high or low areas. Putting a layer of tape in low areas and covering with one layer full length of spine can help with an even bevel.

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Thanks, Leonard-I kinda figured all 3 of those would apply. I have started with as many as 5 layers of tape before, removing layers as I work my way up the hones (don't laugh, it works for extreme cases). I have also done the differential/partial taping (whatever it's called) at times too, but probably not as good at it as more experienced hands. It may be a moot point for awhile anyway unless I bump it to the top of the queue, as I've got a pile of other blades I've already matched to scales; just gotta find time to do 'em. Thanks again!

If it is a super duper keeper, and you don’t have much in it you could send it to Karl Johnson for a light regrind to remove the hone wear from both the spine and minimalize the bevel width.
You could also accomplish the same thing with hand sanding. With the bevel already established you can work it down to invisible with a lot of hand sanding and effectively do the regrind by hand.
You could also follow the above procedure, and won’t retype it.
The fourth is to hone it and use it, with new scales of course.
:-)
Keep us posted.

Like Leonard said, I've sanded a few by hand to hide the hone wear. Its a lot of work but can be done. If you really want it corrected, like Rez said. Contact Karl. Either way you got a nice keeper there. Its a biggie!

What I would personally do is rolling x without tape and get the wear that is there more equalized and establish at the very least the heel bevel. After that, one layer of tape if you wanted tape to hone with and just be patient/refresh the layer of tape periodically. Layering up the tape is just folly. I got a butcher recently where the toe was heavily hit and the mid to heel as well as the spine had not much contact at all in those areas. I just equalized it on my corrective bevel setter, moved on through a few synth grits and honed it on a jnat. So long as I never chip the edge, I am never going to have to hog off tons of steel again and it shaves beautifully.. It's not really the trendy solution, but mine anyway had that wear at the toe already. Btw, you should have a good look at that blade. Sometimes, a lot of wedges are that way due to improper approach by whoever owned it, but other times it is because of a warp or twist causing the person honing it who is otherwise capable to just run out of talent. Wostenholms are usually pretty good about not being that way though.
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That blade really doesn't look too off imo really looking at it. I am guessing it is not warped at the heel because neither side was really hit on the edge but the spine was so they probably were not being mindful of rocking to establish contact on the stone with the edge.

If you want an even bevel there are only two solutions

Add Tape and the associated Tricks

Remove steel

To be VERY clear you don't need an even bevel to shave, but most of us strive for them

Once the steel is removed from the razor it can't be put back so choose carefully how you want to proceed

Regrinds are done one of two ways,

Superficial where you remove the MINIMAL amount of face steel to make the razor look good again

Full Regrind where you are actually changing the grind of the razor ie: changing a Near Wedge to a 1/4 wedge or close

Understand that this doesn't make the razor into perfect geometry again, doing a regrind simply resets the spine and bevel to equal, you cannot ever add thickness to the spine to reset the geometry.
You can ONLY reset that geometry by adding tape or making the razor smaller ie: changing a 7/8 into a 6/8 or whatever measurement works


Math is math

A little known tape trick, that I have posted over the years

Put one layer of tape on the spine, grind the spine of the razor on a 1k hone until you hit steel, flip and repeat,

Now add a second layer of tape, or more depending on geometry, this is the nondamaging way of correcting for warp, rather than grinding away steel you are grinding away tape.. This is the older version of what Matt is doing with removing steel, same concept


These are all just tricks to compensate for bad honing in the past,


Hone On !!!


PS:

Add 3 layers of tape and do a Sharpie Test, then you can make an educated analysis of what you have in your hand BEFORE moving forward

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Originally Posted by kcb5150

Layering up the tape is just folly. ]

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As opposed to removing a bunch of steel that doesn't *need* to be removed? As Glen pointed out, there are two paths available here, and when used correctly, tape can be *extremely* helpful in dealing with tricky geometrical problems without irretrievably changing the structure of the blade.

Don't get me wrong: it's your blade, so do whatever floats your boat. As long as it works and gets the result you're looking for, that's fantastic.

But for those who prefer not to permanently alter a blade's geometry, and who would rather preserve as much of the remaining steel as possible, tape makes perfectly good sense. And it just works.

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Originally Posted by kcb5150

What I would personally do is rolling x without tape and get the wear that is there more equalized and establish at the very least the heel bevel. After that, one layer of tape if you wanted tape to hone with and just be patient/refresh the layer of tape periodically. Layering up the tape is just folly. I got a butcher recently where the toe was heavily hit and the mid to heel as well as the spine had not much contact at all in those areas. I just equalized it on my corrective bevel setter, moved on through a few synth grits and honed it on a jnat. So long as I never chip the edge, I am never going to have to hog off tons of steel again and it shaves beautifully.. It's not really the trendy solution, but mine anyway had that wear at the toe already. Btw, you should have a good look at that blade. Sometimes, a lot of wedges are that way due to improper approach by whoever owned it, but other times it is because of a warp or twist causing the person honing it who is otherwise capable to just run out of talent. Wostenholms are usually pretty good about not being that way though.

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JMO
As Aaron has said it's the nicest Wosty hes ever come across grinding away the spine is going to destroy it aesthetically. Yes it does work, and for someone who views a razor as an utilitarian tool this is perfectly fine but for many it simply ruins a razor.


This is a far better approach with the same theory behind it.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Put one layer of tape on the spine, grind the spine of the razor on a 1k hone until you hit steel, flip and repeat,

Now add a second layer of tape, or more depending on geometry, this is the nondamaging way of correcting for warp, rather than grinding away steel you are grinding away tape.. This is the older version of what Matt is doing with removing steel, same concept


These are all just tricks to compensate for bad honing in the past,


Hone On !!!


PS:

Add 3 layers of tape and do a Sharpie Test, then you can make an educated analysis of what you have in your hand BEFORE moving forward

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There's already a disparity front face to back face on the spine wear front so you could say that is not aesthetically appealing. Regardless, it's not going to take much to reel the spine in and get heel contact anyway. Either recommendation would make the razor sit better on the stone. I do get Glen's three layers recommendation as it will show you pretty quickly if someone freehanded the thing like a knife in the past, but do use an appropriate amount for the geometry once you get the lay of the land. Calc the bevel at 3 or 4 points on the edge if possible, that helps also.

The last honer was heavy handed, honed with a flat stroke riding on the tang at the heel, on both sides, more on the backside. That would account for the uneven bevel at the heel. It does appear to have a slight warp by the wear on the spine.

We see this a lot with worn heels where the razor is hone on the stabilizers and keeps the heel off the stone, so the honer adds more pressure and spine wear.

In your case there are no stabilizers, but probably a slight warp. To compensate, more pressure was use and inadvertently honed on the point of the tang, lifting the heel off the stone compounding the problem. Note the very little spine wear on at the heel and toe and the thin to non-existent bevel at the toe and heel on the stamped side.

Put the razor on a high grit stone 8k or higher, ink the spine and the bevels and see where you are making contact on the bevels and the spine.

You can break the sharp bottom corner of the spine wear, rounding the look of the spine with some 4 or 600 under your thumb and refined with a wet and dry wrapped cork. The belly looks like it is going to need some work, (Hand sanding) so any scratches you put on the belly will come out anyway. You don’t need to remove much metal to change the look and none of the spine thickness or blade width.

A heel forward rolling x stroke, allowing the heel to come off the stone about half-way will hone it just fine. You may have to lift the heel to hone the toe on the show side and add finger pressure on the heel to hone it more.

You will probably need 2 layers of tape to compensate for the hone wear, Kapton over electrical works great. I would put the Kapton over 2 layers of electrical tape.
If you don’t want to do a full restore, some 600 followed by 1k will clean it up some, followed by buffing with Green Stainless greased compound will give it some shine without hours of sanding. Or followed with 600 wet and dry single directional sanding after buffing for a satin finish. If you don’t like it, you can buff it.

Thanks much for all the input guys! For what it's worth, I learned to hone on big smilin' Sheffields cuz that's what I like most, so I'm very used to rockin' and rollin' to get ALL of an edge honed-I've been known to spend a lot of extra time bringing problematic toes and heels in line. Somewhere between all these posts I will figure out a way (or contact Karl lol-he is a miracle worker with those old Sheffields!)

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Originally Posted by kcb5150

Calc the bevel at 3 or 4 points on the edge if possible

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^^^^^^ This.

Note that this does not change the razor at all.