Wide or narrow bevel

Hi guys,

Job15 said he likes to raise the spine to get a narrower bevel, I understand. He also said that a narrow bevel for him is mostly cosmetic, or have I misunderstood?

bluesman7 says he just uses Kapton Tape so that he doesn't change the bevel angle.

Keeping the spine low would obviously result in a wider bevel.

My questions are:

1) Other than cosmetics what are the pro's and con's of a wide vs narrow bevel?

2) By using just Kapton I assume that the factory bevel could be preserved, isn't that better?

3) If a narrower bevel was better, wouldn't the factory use one?

4) By using just Kapton Tape, how much difficulty does it create should the razor be honed by someone else in future that doesn't have kapton but tapes the spine with insulating tape?

Tape, no tape, different kinds of tape make very little difference when it comes to rehoning. It only takes a few strokes to change that. Victor like a very thin tape, and it’s mostly preference, although there are some very minor changes in geometry, and yes the more or thicker tape raises the spine and makes a more narrow bevel. Most of the time we are talking about very minor changes that do not change much other than some minor cosmetics.

I use tape to change the bevel angle to a more wanted angle. 17 to 19 degrees. If the bevel is wide or thin is just the way it is. Thin makes for easier honing and a better look. But a wide bevel can still shave as well as a thin one.

Hi,I think that when i referred to using extra tape to raise the spine thus keeping the bevel moderate i was talking about restoration work, removing amounts of metal like you do for edge correction, chip removal etc.

Trying to keep the work nearer the apex and not letting the bevel move up the blade to much and extending the width. Also when nearing the end of the restoration then moving to one layer..

I hope this makes sense :)

In answer to your questions:

1.A wider bevel makes no difference other than cosmetics.
2.Why care about factory settings :)
3.Most or all new blades have a nice tight bevel or they should have.
4.No difference.

For a given grind I think that we could agree on a few things.
1. The more acute the bevel angle the larger the bevel reveal.
2. The larger the bevel reveal the more steel that has to be removed to reform the apex.
3. The geometry of the razor depends on the active width in relation to the thickness of the spine.
4. Going from using tape to not using tape, or visa versa, is easily done and does not change the basic geometry of the razor.
5. Using tape allows the active width to change over multiple honing sessions while the spine width is not changing so the geometry is changing slightly, HOWEVER in practice this change in geometry is small enough to be ignored. On a typical 6/8 razor the active width would have to be reduced about 1/16" to increase the inclusive bevel angle by one degree.

OK I think that about covers what we could all agree on. People have differing opinions on how to weigh the factors of bevel angle vs bevel reveal size. Some people believe that the bevel width does not effect their ability to achieve a fine edge. Others believe that the bevel angle does not matter if the edge is good. A third group believes that both of these things matter.

:popcorn:

Razor geometry determines the bevel reveal. Tape is mainly cosmetic to prevent spine wear. Unless you are resetting your bevel on a daily/weekly basis it's a personal preference and does not affect the shave for most.

Other reasons tape is used:
Wedges require it up until the bevel angle is obtuse enough to require a regrind.
On some razors where the spine is much softer than the core (i.e forged Suminagashi) tape is used to avoid altering the geometry.
Some recommend it for beginners to prevent excessive wear as they learn to set a bevel.
Some use it one very worn razors to get a decent bevel angle that the steel will support.
Some use it early in chip removal speed up the process to get down to good steel then use whatever bevel setting method they use.

I don't use tape. When i get to the point the spine wear is obvious I know it's time to get a new razor. I hate wedges so they are never a concern :)

Edit: One reason I don't like tape is I prefer singing bellied hollows. The belly is ground by hand and not always uniform the length of the razor . It is easy to tell when you are starting to hone into the belly when you see your bevel reveal decrease dramatically on parts of your edge. Then you have a decision to make.

My questions are:

1) Other than cosmetics what are the pro's and con's of a wide vs narrow bevel?

You adjust tape and bevel angles for a variety of reasons, mostly on spine worn razor to make up for lost spine width from aggressive honing.


2) By using just Kapton I assume that the factory bevel could be preserved, isn't that better?

Once the bevels are flat in a specific grind (bevel angle) it is easy to alter the angle and a minimal amount of steel needs to be removed. For electrical tap or no tape it is about 15-20 laps on a 1k.


3) If a narrower bevel was better, wouldn't the factory use one?

Maybe, depends . What is the factory bevel on a 1800’s razor, on a Gold Dollar? Not all steels can take a narrow bevel angle with an aggressive high grit stone like a SG20.

Dovo and probably other folks hone their razors with the spine hone to preserve the spine. So, what is the factory bevel angle? They are just trying to get them out the door. Most edge tools are not honed for use, it is assumed the owner will hone it for his specific use.

4) By using just Kapton Tape, how much difficulty does it create should the razor be honed by someone else in future that doesn't have kapton but tapes the spine with insulating tape?

Once the bevels are flat in a specific grind (bevel angle) it is easy to alter the angle and a minimal amount of steel needs to be removed. For electrical tap or no tape it is about 15-20 laps on a 1k.

I tape mainly because I restore all my razors, and don't want to remove any more metal than off the edge. Even for touch ups. I hate to see bad spine wear.

Attachment 314600

Sanded, taped n bevel set. Sure wouldn't look like that, without tape. The hone wear is hidden, but still there. The tape took place of the original spine width, = original bevel width
Attachment 314601

Then there's the few NOS razors I've come across, want them looking prestine, no scratches on the spine.